How many of us can read music?

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I picked up the guitar when covid started. I started lessons including playing classical guitar so I learned to read the treble clef. Then I started to learn the piano. I didn't know there was a whole another clef to learn.
LOL

Actually no one has mentioned the alto clef yet, used for viola and mandola. I'm pretty slow sight reading it.

Evidently there is/was a tenor clef as well, which I didn't know until I read the wiki article.

[mr. beaumont]

Yes. And I wish I was better at it.

[LAPlayer]

Almost anyone who has studied any orchestral instrument reads music. Therefore, many who studied music as a child, or in school, and some of us college, HAD to read music. It's not optional, it's part of learning to play an instrument. Like many musicians who studied music at university I read music. It's no harder than reading this post, if you are practiced in it. Many musicians use their own personal annotation for their charts and others operate with tablature or other shorthand. One thing I've acknowledged over decades making music is that reading music has never held me back from anything where not being able to might have.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Evidently there is/was a tenor clef as well, which I didn't know until I read the wiki article.

Strictly speaking, guitar music is written in a "tenor G clef". It's a G clef because it indicates the G line by circling it.

"Treble" means high register, so the standard G clef is most often used to indicate G4 (above middle C) as in piano left hand, violin, flute, soprano voice and so on. Guitar music lowers the stave into tenor register.

Of course the clef usually known as "tenor clef" is a "C" clef, marking the line through the centre (4th line up) as middle C. (The alto C clef does the same thing, marking the middle line.)

In guitar music, middle C is the space above the centre line, so the register of guitar notation is midway between alto and tenor clef; but it's known as a tenor clef when used in vocal music - usually marked with a little "8" on the bottom to indicate the octave transposition. (Guitar clefs rarely do this now.)

[RLetson]

Reading--particularly sight-reading--a score is a skill. Playing music on the guitar (or any other instrument) is also a skill. They are not necessarily connected, though score-reading can be of considerable help in advancing one's playing (especially acquiring repertory or arrangements). Like several other posters, I "learned" the rudiments of standard notation as a kid--at almost exactly the same time I got my first guitar. But while I can (nearly 70 years later) construe a simple melody in the key of C, that is not how I learn new material.

Thanks to much later (mostly after my 50th birthday) instruction, I understand many of the guitar-relevant parts of music theory--chord-building, harmonic and rhythmic structures, chart-reading--which make learning new material and playing with others easier. But even that knowledge is distinct from playing the guitar and from learning by ear. My limitations are mostly due to never acquiring guitar-specific skills and knowledge--the locations of all the notes on the fingerboard, scales and arpeggios--that contribute to the playing of my more fluent playing partners. But knowing-that is distinct from knowing-how, and knowing-how is where the music comes from, at least for me.

Nevertheless, if I could retroactively redesign my guitar-learning experience, I would include more of those boring, repetitive practice sessions, so that, say, a mid-tune modulation or a singer's request for a tune in a non-canonical key would not require a frantic re-thinking of the changes.

And to reinforce some coments in previous posts: Reading, even sight-reading, does not inevitably lead to comfortable improvisatory or informal playing. One of the perennial components of folk and jazz teaching I've observed is getting well-schooled and technically competent players "off the page." I've even noticed very competent orchestral violinists pause when asked for the key of a piece they've called--unlike guitarists, they're unused to thinking of a tune as a set of changes in a particular key. Which does not affect their ability to tear through it at a considerable clip.

[Bluenose]

I can 'sight read' tab and I also can read and understand standard notation. I learned quite a bit about standard by transcribing fingerpicking music videos that I find interesting and would like to play. My motto: "if I can count it I can transcribe it" but I'll admit to quitting on a few that I found too difficult.

It helps to have a clear view of the players hands so you can get an idea of what chords are being used and what the right hand is doing.

I transcribe the music by typing the tab into the notational software I use called TablEdit which simultaneously converts it into standard and all the rules of standard apply. In other words it won't let you cheat so you learn how standard works.

I highly recommend it as a learning tool. You can start with the very basic 4/4, alternating bass on the beat and notes between. You can download a free demo version of TablEdit which I used for quite some time but it restricts how much you can save. BTW I'm not affiliated, just a satisfied user. Some people prefer Guitar Pro, same idea.

[Stratcat77]

I can't read music. Given enough time, I could probably figure out what's written, but I've never taken time to work on that skill. I'd love to be able to read well some day, but so far it just hasn't been a priority for me and hasn't held me back from doing what I love with music.

Given the choice between the two, I'd choose only being able to play by ear vs only being a proficient reader. As been pointed out, one who can only read music does not have the ability to improvise. I see that as a big handicap for live performance which is what I love doing.

I don't know this for certain, but I believe that most of the music I enjoy was probably written by someone who wasn't proficient at reading music.

All that said, some day I'd love to develop that skill. I do think it would make me a better overall musician. And similarly, I think those who can only read (and cannot play by ear) would be better musicians if they could do both well. Interestingly, it seems some in the latter camp look down on those who can only play by ear? While I hold great respect for the skill some have to read on the fly with great accuracy and execution, it's always struck me as odd that if you pull the sheet music away, some are unable to make music.

[Tunesalot]

Only scanned the responses so far but certainly feel in general accordance. I learned to read music before letters and words. I blame excellent church music notation and some childrens’ choir stuff. Then learned kindergarten reading of recorder music, then violin music, flute music and guitar notation, bass clef, odd scales scales etc. I was the friend who would have eagerly run home for piano if afforded such. Anyway, as an avid sight reader, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. That being said, there are so many musicians that are better than me with zero music training. So everyone should apply themselves as they are inspired to do. Let us make the music of our inspirations!

[Jack the Pearl]

Wow! What an accomplished and articulate group. I had no idea. And, just for clarity's sake, I wasn't asking if any of us can sight read. Kudos to those who can. I don't recall that I ever could and I don't aspire to it.

Like many of us, I learned to read music for various orchestral instruments. And mostly in grade school. I played clarinet, with private lessons (yes, I was required to read) through 7th or 8th grade.

Reeds are very difficult, I learned. If you're not expert at controlling the reed with your lips (a skill no one tried to teach me) you'll find that a good deal of the time you're "playing" you'll be making sounds that sound like a psychotic small animal that's being tormented if not tortured. Lovely. I kept at it for longer than I can believe in retrospect.

But, I'm already ahead of myself. I began my battle with reading music even younger. With brass.

Brass instruments are very difficult, I also learned. I was not good at controlling my lips, breath, and the mouthpiece all at the same time. As a result, I made sounds that sounded like large animals in agony (trombone) or slightly smaller animals that were frightened and trying to scare off their attacker (coronet, trumpet).

I gave all this up for a long time, but didn't forget the basics of reading standard notation. (My current teacher's contrary opinion notwithstanding.) In my second year of college I was challenged to learn the electric bass. I thought, " Wow. Only 4 strings, arrayed in natural 5ths (I think), and frets! Thank you Lord on high." This took away a lot of the vagaries of slide trombone, squishy technique with a brass mouthpiece, and breath control.

And we were going to play for crowds that included girls! That could dance. And wore tight jeans! Wow. Luckily for me, the band was a hit and we played for the remainder of my college carrier with dancing audiences and a campus reputation for being cut-ups and mediocre musicians.

I can still read music, too. So now, I gotta go practice. Thanks for all your responses.

[oldrocker]

I learned to read music when I first took lessons at about age 9. Never made much sense to me because what was in my head was so much easier for my hands to read without my intellect being involved. So I'm music illiterate...never have even learned tab other than the kind you drink and didn't like that much.

[The Bard Rocks]

I joined elementary band in 4th grade and have sight read ever since. At age 14, I taught myself guitar and was sight reading long before I could make my fingers do what my eyes told them to do. It is still the way I prefer to learn new music. In simple music I can play it correctly without hearing it first, and can fill in the chords even when they are not printed anywhere. That's very handy.

Think of it: if you have never heard a piece of music before (or,, for the life of you, can't remember how it goes) and there's no one around to show you, how else are you going to play it?

I don't read bass clef and there's finer points of reading and writing that I don't do, usually because having not needed them for 50 years, I've forgotten. When I started playing with others, I was shocked to find out how many are musically illiterate, not that I saw them held back all that much. So, I decided I needed to learn to play by ear. That proved to be harder, but I can do it. Had I a better ear, it might have been easier.

As far as impro goes, I mostly stick to the melody line. Sometimes I get inspired and surprise myself. I am learning to do this but it does not come naturally. I cannot improvise while whistling and don't do well at it with my voice. My conclusion is that it will never be something i do well. And that's OK - I like melodies better anyhow.

[Nymuso]

I taught myself to read when I got into musical theater, mostly so I could learn the songs I had to sing on stage but also for when I played guitar or bass in the pit band. I never got good enough to sight read, just good enough to figure things out.

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by Stratcat77

c.

Given the choice between the two, I'd choose only being able to play by ear vs only being a proficient reader. As been pointed out, one who can only read music does not have the ability to improvise. I see that as a big handicap for live performance which is what I love doing.

I don't know this for certain, but I believe that most of the music I enjoy was probably written by someone who wasn't proficient at reading music.

All that said, some day I'd love to develop that skill. I do think it would make me a better overall musician. And similarly, I think those who can only read (and cannot play by ear) would be better musicians if they could do both well. Interestingly, it seems some in the latter camp look down on those who can only play by ear? While I hold great respect for the skill some have to read on the fly with great accuracy and execution, it's always struck me as odd that if you pull the sheet music away, some are unable to make music.

I can understand that some people do just fine without learning to read music. Some of the finest guitarist that ever played I'm sure couldn't read music. I'm thinking about just about every rock and blues player that was ever recorded but some could. John McLaughlin, Frank Zappa to name a couple. My point is that the the ability to improvise and play by ear and the ability to read music are not mutually exclusive. I'll admit to having just a basic knowledge of it and I wasn't born with a great ear for music but that's something that can be learned just like the ability to improvise. In other words if somebody tells me they can read music I don't think well then they can't 'play by ear' or improvise. I'm impressed that the person was so interested in the subject that they invested the time and effort to learn.

[Stratcat77]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

I can understand that some people do just fine without learning to read music. Some of the finest guitarist that ever played I'm sure couldn't read music. I'm thinking about just about every rock and blues player that was ever recorded but some could. John McLaughlin, Frank Zappa to name a couple. My point is that the the ability to improvise and play by ear and the ability to read music are not mutually exclusive. I'll admit to having just a basic knowledge of it and I wasn't born with a great ear for music but that's something that can be learned just like the ability to improvise. In other words if somebody tells me they can read music I don't think well then they can't 'play by ear' or improvise. I'm impressed that the person was so interested in the subject that they invested the time and effort to learn.

I agree 100%! I hope my post didn't sound otherwise. It very much impresses me to see someone who is proficient in sight reading! That's an impressive skill. Sort of a human midi machine. Feed me the information and out comes the music. Cool.

My point was that I have met people who can ONLY read music and if you take away the sheet music they are unable to play a song. If given the choice of ONLY being able to do one or the other, my choice would be to be able to only play by ear.

Of course, being able to do both (as some can) would be great!

[Silly Moustache]

In Junior school (5-11) we sang a lot, rondo (London Bridge is falling down etc) and other choir things like Bobby Shafto, but no music studies.

I went to secondary school at 11, and we had a music teacher. Loved his lessons, lovely bloke, but during the second term he was stabbed in the playground, and died. (it was a very rough school). He was not replaced (I wonder why!?0

That was the end of my music education, but he did leave a large cupboard full of instruments, and I "liberated" the drum kit.

I tried once to learn notation, but my teacher and I both got bored at the same time.

I didn't discover tablature until I started going to a bluegrass camp. By then I had developed a way of "seeing" music in my mind, and it didn't look like tab.

I stopped going when I discovered that most of the tutors just handed out tab sheets and left.

I mostly taught myself theory as I needed it.

Edit. I have a friend whose Mum is a Music teacher - piano and clarinet. In their house they have a fine baby grand piano that she is very proud of.

Once I asked her to play it for me. She said !I haven't got any music here at present"
I said just play anything o I can hear the tone.
She looked at me as if I was an idiot -"You can't play music without the sheet music!"

I wonder what kind of teacher she is.

Seems to me that playing only from notation (or tab) is more like being a musical instrument "operator" rather than a "player".