Poll – Has your Martin had binding problems?

[massimo]

Sadie, this is getting funny/annoying. I wrote politely.
This is not my "version, inferred from an internet poll". It is my personal experience with two 2019 Martins. Others have reported, and continue reporting, post-2015 Martins being flawed as well. The problem has not been solved in the early 10's as you erroneously state, this is a fact. Period.
Also, may I say this is not your generic "internet poll". It is based on a well established, respectable community of guitar enthusiasts and experts.

But I promise, I will not post in this thread. I wrote what I believe I had to write. Someone had spoken of closing the thread, and I believed some conclusions could be drawn before that.

[TheGITM]

Okay, everyone... let's all just settle down now...

It's just guitars, folks. This ain't life and death stuff we're dealing with here, right? The irony here, is that most of the people impacted by this issue are likely fairly well-off individuals... not all, granted, but I suspect the majority have a few dollars or they wouldn't have a Martin (or two, or three) to begin with...

In my case, I have a $4k guitar (list price) and it cost me a $5 tube of glue and an hour (or two) of my time to fix (at least, temporarily). But I play my guitar. It has a couple of dings. It has some pick scratches. I'm not terribly bothered by some binding separation. I never had any intention of trying to keep it perfect, or even near perfect. That's not why I have guitars. I own it to play it, and it's going to wear as it ages. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Everything else it out of my control, and out of your control. Martin will do whatever Martin decides to do. If you don't want to buy any more Martins, I respect that. There are so many great guitars out there to choose from, and many sound as good as the best Martins. There really is no reason to buy a Martin unless you want to own a Martin. If you want to own a Martin, you may have to deal with this binding issue. It's pretty simple, really.

As for those of us that already own Martins and have had to deal with this... it is what it is. Yes, it sucks. No, there isn't really anything we can do about it, except to deal with it and move on.

Martin will do, or not do, whatever they decide. Yelling about it on message boards, and shaking your virtual fists in the air, isn't likely to worry Martin too much. They've heard all this. They know what's what. They know it's an issue that they created, and they will pay the warranty work to have it fixed. However, they are counting on a certain number of guitars never being brought in for work, and a certain number will fall out of warranty. It is a numbers game, and they know more about it than we do.

I like my Martin, despite the binding issue. I also like my Guild, my Gibson, and my growing fleet of Alvarez-Yairis... life's too short to get bothered by simple stuff. And ultimately, guitar binding is 'simple stuff'. It's not going to matter to you down the road. I promise.

Okay, let's get this week started! Monday, Monday...

[davidd]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

Okay, everyone... let's all just settle down now...

It's just guitars, folks. This ain't life and death stuff we're dealing with here, right? The irony here, is that most of the people impacted by this issue are likely fairly well-off individuals... not all, granted, but I suspect the majority have a few dollars or they wouldn't have a Martin (or two, or three) to begin with...

In my case, I have a $4k guitar (list price) and it cost me a $5 tube of glue and an hour (or two) of my time to fix (at least, temporarily). But I play my guitar. It has a couple of dings. It has some pick scratches. I'm not terribly bothered by some binding separation. I never had any intention of trying to keep it perfect, or even near perfect. That's not why I have guitars. I own it to play it, and it's going to wear as it ages. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Everything else it out of my control, and out of your control. Martin will do whatever Martin decides to do. If you don't want to buy any more Martins, I respect that. There are so many great guitars out there to choose from, and many sound as good as the best Martins. There really is no reason to buy a Martin unless you want to own a Martin. If you want to own a Martin, you may have to deal with this binding issue. It's pretty simple, really.

As for those of us that already own Martins and have had to deal with this... it is what it is. Yes, it sucks. No, there isn't really anything we can do about it, except to deal with it and move on.

Martin will do, or not do, whatever they decide. Yelling about it on message boards, and shaking your virtual fists in the air, isn't likely to worry Martin too much. They've heard all this. They know what's what. They know it's an issue that they created, and they will pay the warranty work to have it fixed. However, they are counting on a certain number of guitars never being brought in for work, and a certain number will fall out of warranty. It is a numbers game, and they know more about it than we do.

I like my Martin, despite the binding issue. I also like my Guild, my Gibson, and my growing fleet of Alvarez-Yairis... life's too short to get bothered by simple stuff. And ultimately, guitar binding is 'simple stuff'. It's not going to matter to you down the road. I promise.

Okay, let's get this week started! Monday, Monday...

It isn't for you to say how other people should react to this. You seem fine with Martin whitewashing this problem, many of us don't. I doubt you will be happy when your binding separates again after the $5 fix.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

Okay, everyone... let's all just settle down now...

It's just guitars, folks. This ain't life and death stuff we're dealing with here, right? The irony here, is that most of the people impacted by this issue are likely fairly well-off individuals... not all, granted, but I suspect the majority have a few dollars or they wouldn't have a Martin (or two, or three) to begin with...

In my case, I have a $4k guitar (list price) and it cost me a $5 tube of glue and an hour (or two) of my time to fix (at least, temporarily). But I play my guitar. It has a couple of dings. It has some pick scratches. I'm not terribly bothered by some binding separation. I never had any intention of trying to keep it perfect, or even near perfect. That's not why I have guitars. I own it to play it, and it's going to wear as it ages. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Everything else it out of my control, and out of your control. Martin will do whatever Martin decides to do. If you don't want to buy any more Martins, I respect that. There are so many great guitars out there to choose from, and many sound as good as the best Martins. There really is no reason to buy a Martin unless you want to own a Martin. If you want to own a Martin, you may have to deal with this binding issue. It's pretty simple, really.

As for those of us that already own Martins and have had to deal with this... it is what it is. Yes, it sucks. No, there isn't really anything we can do about it, except to deal with it and move on.

Martin will do, or not do, whatever they decide. Yelling about it on message boards, and shaking your virtual fists in the air, isn't likely to worry Martin too much. They've heard all this. They know what's what. They know it's an issue that they created, and they will pay the warranty work to have it fixed. However, they are counting on a certain number of guitars never being brought in for work, and a certain number will fall out of warranty. It is a numbers game, and they know more about it than we do.

Maybe reread the Ted Lasso quote in your sig, and then your post again?

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by davidd

It isn't for you to say how other people should react to this. You seem fine with Martin whitewashing this problem, many of us don't. I doubt you will be happy when your binding separates again after the $5 fix.

I'll deal with it. It's just a guitar.

Actually, if/when it separates again I will very likely remove the binding entirely and replace it. Maybe with Maple. Sounds like a fun project, in a weird way... I've already Googled where I can get maple binding.

Or, I'll just cut the binding next time to relieve all of the tension and reattach. That might leave a small gap in the binding that I would need to fill, or just leave the slight gap and move on. Either way, if I cut the binding it should stay in place for good next time. The guitar plays and sounds the same, regardless of the binding.

I don't understand why some seem bothered by the fact that I'm not bothered by the binding issue. I don't like it, but I don't get worked up over it. It's really kinda pointless, IMO.

I got nothing but love for us acoustic guitar players... and the acoustic guitar game. There are a lot of guitars behind me, and still some ahead of me. My Martin plays and sounds great, so I'm okay with what I have and will deal with whatever happens.

I guess I should stop repeating myself. It's even starting to bore me, and I'm not easily bored...

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

Maybe reread the Ted Lasso quote in your sig, and then your post again?

It applies. Sorry if you can't see that. I'm not criticizing anything or anyone. Do whatcha wanna do.

I'm sharing my perspective. I've seen all of the comments... many times in many different threads... and it's the same stuff repeated over and over again (including my opinion/perspective).

I'll step out now and leave this topic alone. No sense in continuing it.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

I'm not criticizing anything or anyone.

Sure, sure. No judgement in any of that.

[BluesKing777]

All good and peachy if you intend to keep the guitar no matter what, but if you want to move it on for some reason, well......don’t expect as much as you hoped.

To me the actual binding fix is ok, but it is the re-finish done properly that is the concern.....big time consuming task to do right.

My acoustics are looked after very well and generally leave the building looking pretty much the same as when they came in........many times better if I had work done.

But after all the binding and finish repairs done professionally, when consigned it had to be declared and down went the price. Gone....to be done with it all.


BluesKing777.

[kizz]

Originally Posted by massimo

With due respect, there are at least a couple major inaccuracies/untenable points in this post.
1. Martin apparently did NOT change the glue in 2015-16. If they did, they did for the worse, because reports of post-2015 flawed Martins are common (two 2019's here).
2. Wondering how one may have treated his/her Martin guitar over the years, inferring that the issue may easily derive for bad handling/storage of the guitar, is funny. As I wrote in an earlier post, one of the merits of this poll is that of defining the problem very clearly: typical AGF members have multiple guitars, sometimes dozens of them. They (we) may have experienced all (or no) kinds of problems with our guitars, a wide, statistical palette of them. If they are sloppy individuals, they should have treated badly all of their guitars, no? However no other brand shows such a clear pattern: how in the world should bad handling result, consistently, in only ONE kind of problem? This only happens with post-2011 Martins.
Not accepting this is borderline negationism- I am very happy we are talking about a frivolous topic here, or I would be very worried

Read the context. As I wrote, a lot of guesswork and what I wrote about glue change is what I have heard and not a claim, but it is possible that there have been cases after. Likewise, it is not a claim that bindings get loose on Martin guitars because people treat their guitars badly, BUT it can happen, so you can't rule out that a few cases are due to that, can you? You are right that there is a lot of negativity in these threads and that is probably the only thing that comes out of it, people get their frustrations out, fortunately it is a small percentage according to the poll.

[kizz]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

No matter how some people, without any data to back up their claim, try to whitewash CFM’s responsibility by victim-blaming, the fact is that this is a production/QC issue with CFM. The evidence that this is the case is out there - on this forum and others, and in the workshops and anecdotes of reputable luthiers and techs. If anyone believes that the explosion of binding-separations on Martin guitars built since 2012 is the result of owners suddenly beginning to neglect their Martin-only instruments since 2012, perhaps they would like to present their evidence to support their claim and, equally importantly, explain why this phenomenon of neglect seems not to have been a problem prior to 2012.

I won’t hold my breath.

Just to get things straight here, I'm not trying to whitewash anything, if that's me you're referring to. On the other hand, why don't people go ahead with a lawsuit if they have such clear evidence, it's well clear to anyone and has been for over 12 years, but no we continue to repeat ourselves in 134 threads and think it helps. I am aware that Martin is a difficult nut to crack, but isn't it better to spend your energy on it rather than sit and write about it on a forum?

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

I don't understand why some seem bothered by the fact that I'm not bothered by the binding issue. I don't like it, but I don't get worked up over it. It's really kinda pointless, IMO.

I don’t believe they’re particularly bothered by the fact that you’re ‘not bothered by the binding issue’ - it’s your opinion and you’re perfectly entitled to hold it. But I do suspect they’re bothered by the tone of your posts - repeatedly preaching at, and belittling of, those who are ‘bothered by the binding issue’.

Originally Posted by TheGITM

guess I should stop repeating myself. It's even starting to bore me, and I'm not easily bored.

A big Amen to that…