The Logic of Collecting?

[Wade Hampton]

Some very good comments so far in this thread.

I'll add that from a practical musician's standpoint, sometimes these limited edition guitars are outstanding instruments in their own right, based on their musical merits. The celebrity endorsement is almost irrelevant to folks like me.

The most prominent of these, of course, are the various Martin Eric Clapton signature models. The personal popularity of Eric Clapton as a performer combined with his exquisite good taste in Martin guitar models has made for a really marvelous instrument, one that has taken its place as a permanent part of the Martin product line.

Some other outstanding Martin signature models that I can name off the top of my head include the various Lawrence Juber models, the Steve Miller all-koa 12 fret Double O, and the Jimmy Buffet mahogany dreadnought with the forward shifted X brace. I've loved all of these that I've played.

As a music fan, my interest in any of those artists is probably best described as "mild." They've all done some great work, I don't turn the radio off if their music is played, but I probably wouldn't pay much to go see any of them in concert.

But all of those signature models I mentioned are truly superb guitars, and if I was rolling in wealth I'd probably own one of each.

As it is, the custom 000-42 that Scott Baxendale built for me is structurally very similar to the Clapton model, but with a neck profile that suits me better. So I've got the best of both worlds in that guitar.

Anyway, short version: sometimes these signature models and limited edition guitars combine features in such a way that makes them very appealing to flinty-eyed, pragmatic, non-sentimental musicians such as me.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton "I've Got A Heart Of Gold - Hard And Yellow" Miller

[Dotneck]

I'm not even sure I understand the question. By "collecting" are you talking about buying as many of them as possible and keeping them stored and pristine or are you just talking about buying a limited edition guitar and playing it?

I would thing some of the limited edition gisnobs and martins have a better resale value than some handbuilt guitars. Have you ever tried to sell a used Kronbauer? Their value seems to drop like a rock when they are sold used....

[Brent Hutto]

I think financial appreciation claims regarding "special" Martins, Gibsons and the like are somewhat cherry-picked and overhyped. Name-brand guitars if bought at a substantial discount from MAP do hold their value quite well as compared to less-known brands or unknown builders. That's true. But paying extra for a Limited Edition #352 of 750 Commemorative Special Bling Machine just means you are out of pocket some extra money that you will need to recover when you sell it. The number of cases where someone buys one new and sells it a few years later for more than they paid are minuscule.

None of which does anything to help the custom-handbuilt buyer. In most cases that's darned near a 50% hit the day you take delivery. And the cases where that is not true are typically not guitars you can just place an order for and buy in the first place.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Dotneck

I would thing some of the limited edition gisnobs and martins have a better resale value than some handbuilt guitars. Have you ever tried to sell a used Kronbauer? Their value seems to drop like a rock when they are sold used....

That is probably true, mostly because not many people have heard of Kronbauer, and he makes more of a niche product than a commodity like Martin or Gibson, so the target market is considerably smaller. Personally, if you wanted to sell me a Kronbauer you had played for a few years, it would be a tough sell unless you discounted it considerably simply because for under 3k I can get a custom guitar built just for me to my specifications. A simple discount of a few hundred dollars would not make much sense, but a grand might get someone to jump at it. However, much can be the same for Martins. A new Martin has it's retail price, then you pay 40% off of that when you buy it, then if you go to sell it you would reduce the price by another 30 - 50% depending on the condition of the instrument to make it appealing for someone in the market for a new guitar, so a Martin that retails for $5000 might sell around $2000 in the used marked whereas a new Kronbauer that sells for $3000 might end up selling for $1800 - 2000... holding it's value vs. a Martin. In order for the Kronbauer to retain its value you either need A)for them to become scarce vs. demand or B)a substantial price increase for a new instrument which would make his used guitars worth more money. There is no incentive for someone to pay $3k for a used guitar when they can get a brand new one for the same price in a relatively short period of time.

[ocmcook]

investment is what you tell your wife

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by rlgph

Can anyone explain to me the attraction of special editions of the large or mid-size manufacturers? I mean, why should anyone get excited by words like "one of only 150" when you could buy a unique guitar by a well-known individual luthier for comparable, or even lower, cost? Extrapolating the rise in value of vintage Martins or Gibsons to these contemporary special editions seems foolish to me.

Collecting things can be a bit hard to justify, but the good news is we don't have to.

[gitardude]

If you wanted a list of things in life that are common, but not logical to a lot of people, it would be pretty long.

[rlgph]

Thanks, all, for your responses. The variety is fascinating to me.

[HD18JBGuy]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

I think financial appreciation claims regarding "special" Martins, Gibsons and the like are somewhat cherry-picked and overhyped. Name-brand guitars if bought at a substantial discount from MAP do hold their value quite well as compared to less-known brands or unknown builders. That's true. But paying extra for a Limited Edition #352 of 750 Commemorative Special Bling Machine just means you are out of pocket some extra money that you will need to recover when you sell it. The number of cases where someone buys one new and sells it a few years later for more than they paid are minuscule.

None of which does anything to help the custom-handbuilt buyer. In most cases that's darned near a 50% hit the day you take delivery. And the cases where that is not true are typically not guitars you can just place an order for and buy in the first place.

I would say that a lack of significant appreciation is true for a majority of the signature models, but most models hold their value very well. I know I have been fortunate enough to sell a few signatures (three to be exact) at a gain which I used to buy more guitars. I actually doubled my money on one of them.

Just like anything else, if you want to make some money, you need to know when to buy and sell. I was fortunate to get into these guitars, all used, at a great price and sell at a much better price.

[dawhealer]

I'm not into signature models, but sure don't begrudge anyone else that if they are. That said, I played a Gallagher Doc Watson sig a few weeks ago that I'd sure own without a second thought if I had the cash in my pocket. Not because it was a signature model, but because it was a great sounding, great playing guitar.

[fatt-dad]

Yeah, the OP is vague to me. The thread title is "collecting." I mean I have a Martin 000-28 Norman Blake "Signature" model, but I'm not collecting them or others in that same family. I just bought the guitar I wanted (as an upgrade from my HD-29V). The fact that there are 350 or so was not so important and the fact that they have since been discontinued has likely made little difference. May the resale is better, but it's not like it's a few-hundred dollar bonus - maybe I'd get the expected price a little quicker if I wanted to sell (I don't).

On the matter of buying a special line of Martin it doesn't much matter if you overspend on what you really love and enjoy. Often, you pay a higher price never being happy with what you have and paying to try it all.

f-d

[steamfurnace]

I never intended to be a guitar collector, it just looks that way. I am a huge Roger McGuinn fan, and therefore purchased his signature model Rickenbacker 370/12 new back in '89. It is still the best Rick 12 I have had the occasion to play.
I also bought the McGuinn signature Martin HD-7 for the same reason. If it were not an exceptional sounding guitar, I wouldn't have it just for the signature. I did, however buy the Martin LX Jimmy Buffett unheard and unseen as a surprise for my wife. It does, however, sound pretty darn good for a little HPL guitar!

[SlopeD]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

I think financial appreciation claims regarding "special" Martins, Gibsons and the like are somewhat cherry-picked and overhyped. Name-brand guitars if bought at a substantial discount from MAP do hold their value quite well as compared to less-known brands or unknown builders. That's true. But paying extra for a Limited Edition #352 of 750 Commemorative Special Bling Machine just means you are out of pocket some extra money that you will need to recover when you sell it. The number of cases where someone buys one new and sells it a few years later for more than they paid are minuscule.

None of which does anything to help the custom-handbuilt buyer. In most cases that's darned near a 50% hit the day you take delivery. And the cases where that is not true are typically not guitars you can just place an order for and buy in the first place.

That's all true if you simply buy a guitar for the resale value.

[SRVis#1]

I friend of mine just inherited his grandfathers 1940's era Martin, I don't remember the year. It is the best sounding acoustic I have ever played, and I looks immaculate. Long story short he pays more for the insurance on that guitar per year than his grandfather payed for it. I think I have seen them go on ebay for upwards of twenty thousand. I wish my grandfather had played!

[Losov]

I don't get collecting guitars, stamps or anything else. Nor do I go to the ballet.

People who enjoy these things do not need my blessing or understanding. It's all part of the pursuit of happiness.