Martin binding issue question

[DJC]

Realise this has been done to death but….I’m considering a 2011 HD28. No binding issues. Can I assume I would be safe? Or might the problem pop up any old time?

[kizz]

Don't live in fear, buy this beautiful guitar and play it, that's what it's made for, it's not made to worry about. If things break, you fix it and then avoid believing everything you read on the internet...

[BoneDigger]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. Buy it, play it, enjoy it. If the binding comes loose, fix it. I have two Martins. The only thing this discussion does for me is make me check it more often. It's easiest to fix when it's caught early. Otherwise, I'm not changing anything.

[colins]

The binding problem can crop up at any time, although that does not mean it will.

If I was in your position, I’d be thinking about whether there is a good repair shop within a reasonable distance of where I live and whether I could cope without the guitar for a while if the binding did need fixing. Of course, you may be a dab hand at repair work yourself, which would make it easier.

Or…find a guitar that was made before 2010 (or whenever Martin changed their glue). Ain’t nothing wrong with pre-2010 Martins!

[Teherie]

If this guitar sounds and plays great for you and it’s within your price range, you should buy it.

Google Willie Nelson and Trigger and read a couple of stories about Willie and his iconic Martin. He bought this guitar over the phone from his friend Shot Jackson. Judging from the condition of Trigger, loose binding would likely be the least of Willie’s concerns.

[The Bard Rocks]

According to the theme that's currently next to this (which will change as soon as I post this), a poll of 230+ folks shows that about 1/2 of them have experienced these kind of problems. Not a difficult or particular expensive fix, but one that could have been prevented. Depending upon how much I want the guitar, I might factor this into any offer I might make.

[DJC]

Thank you all for the prompt response. Makes sense. Very helpful.

David

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by DJC

Realise this has been done to death but….I’m considering a 2011 HD28. No binding issues. Can I assume I would be safe? Or might the problem pop up any old time?

Of course not. Your best assumption would be that the issue will happen, and decide if you are okay with that. If you are, then great! Buy it. Play it. Don't worry about it. If the binding starts to separate, just deal with it and move on. If you don't want to have to deal with the possible binding issue, then find one of the other many great guitars out there... though, there are no guarantees that you won't have other issues with other guitars. It's just this binding thing is a real issue with some Martins, so caveat emptor and all that...

I'm in the 'don't worry about it' camp. I had it happen on my Martin and I'm dealing with it. It's just a thing, and in the big picture, it's not a big thing (to me).

[abn556]

You could also get a Modern Deluxe with the maple binding. I haven’t heard any stories about issues with the maple binding.

[leew3]

a quick fix that's easily accomplished by a competent repair person and shouldn't be expensive for this wonderful guitar. I have had binding repairs done on two of mine and they still sound great. If it weren't a warranty repair for me as I'm the original owner, I'd likely just do it myself.

[budglo]

Agreed . Buy it and play it . If the binding lose a , it’s not an expensive repair anyways . I know people stay away from certain vintage guitars because of supposed issues. I have a 72 D35 I got cheap because of intonation issues . Cost me less than 100 to repair it . It’s all the risk of buying used .

[rllink]

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=684279

I would say from the above above poll that you have a 50/50 chance that the binding will separate during the time that you own it.

[pcs264]

I hope that most (or some) of us realize that the thread with about 250 responses showing about 50% with binding problems is nothing like a real poll. Anyone with a basic introductory understanding of statistics, sampling, etc. recognizes this immediately. This has a really powerful sampling bias toward those who have had binding problems with their Martins (yes this is real, and I feel for those who have experienced it). But it doesn't tell us anything about how many Martin owners from what years have NOT had binding issues, about how those guitars were cared for. etc. In fact, no one knows the real numbers on this. For an example of sampling bias in the opposite direction, if you were to stand up in a random full movie theatre and ask, "How many of you have had binding problems with your Martin guitars?", you'd most likely get zero positive responses. Neither this weird scenario nor the ongoing AGF thread is gives us any meaningful, reliable data, as neither is a properly designed poll.

Buy this guitar and enjoy it like crazy. It probably won't have a binding issue, and if it does it's an easy and inexpensive fix.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by pcs264

I hope that most (or some) of us realize that the thread with about 250 responses showing about 50% with binding problems is nothing like a real poll. Anyone with a basic introductory understanding of statistics, sampling, etc. recognizes this immediately. This has a really powerful sampling bias toward those who have had binding problems with their Martins (yes this is real, and I feel for those who have experienced it). But it doesn't tell us anything about how many Martin owners from what years have NOT had binding issues, about how those guitars were cared for. etc. In fact, no one knows the real numbers on this. For an example of sampling bias in the opposite direction, if you were to stand up in a random full movie theatre and ask, "How many of you have had binding problems with your Martin guitars?", you'd most likely get zero positive responses. Neither this weird scenario nor the ongoing AGF thread is gives us any meaningful, reliable data, as neither is a properly designed poll.

Buy this guitar and enjoy it like crazy. It probably won't have a binding issue, and if it does it's an easy and inexpensive fix.

Like the old saying goes, it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

It's "nothing like a real poll" and everything like a real problem for those that notice that loose waist binding after spending a whole bunch of money.

Yes, I took a statistics & probabilities class, and I do know these topics aren't rooted in good sampling techniques.

BUT... AGF has a broad number of guitar owners of MANY brands who frequent this website. If you didn't know, AGF did indeed have it's initial formation as the Unofficial Taylor Forum.

If you base your comments on relatively disgruntled owners than there should be a commensurate number of posts from owners of other brands. Where are they?

If you base your comments on the number of guitars sold then there should be at least twice as many "Loose binding on my Taylor" topics.

Marginalization of the degree of importance in these topics as being due to "skewed percentages" just doesn't hold any water.

I'd also postulate that all of the "no big deal" responses are based on those who haven't felt the sting of working hard to purchase a not inexpensive guitar and then having to pay more money and do without a possibly favorite instrument, sometimes for a very LONG time. Very few of those "repaired" guitars come out unscathed, and often are devalued accordingly when it's time to sell.

It's not a "small detail" to many owners, and it's unfortunate that desiring to purchase a Martin might lead to an bitter aftertaste. I love the "idea" of proud ownership of a historically important brand, but the reality sometimes proves to be something entirely different for many.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by rllink

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=684279

I would say from the above above poll that you have a 50/50 chance that the binding will separate during the time that you own it.

Not if you read closely. 50% of the respondents said that they have not experienced any issues with any of their guitars. 50% of the respondents (implicitly have) said that they have experiences issues with one or more, or all, of their guitars. We don’t know the total number of guitars in either category, but we know that there are people in both categories who own multiple guitars. If we assume that the number of guitars in both categories are roughly the same, then 50% is the upper boundary. But we know from many people’s responses that, of the owners of multiple guitars, some have had the issue with all of their guitars (e.g., 3 for 3, 4 for 4, etc.) while others have only had the issue with some of their guitars. In my case, it’s 1 out of 10. So the actual percentage is less than 50%, but without a more precise poll (which the vBulletin software doesn’t support) or more detailed responses in-thread, we can’t come up with a precise number. I’m not trying to minimize the issue, just point out that the conclusion that 50% of Martins with bindings built in the reference period have or will have an issue is likely incorrect.

To the OP, I’ve always understood that the binding issue relates to guitars built starting in 2012, so a 2011 HD-28 wouldn’t be in the crosshairs. That’s not to say that the problem couldn’t happen, it’s just not in period that is generally understood to have the widespread problem. However, a 2011 HD-28 would be pre-reimagined version, so a 1-11/16” nut, x-braces in the standard position (i.e., not forward position), closed-back tuners, etc. I have a pre-reimagined HD-28 and a reimagined HD-28, and while the pre-reimagined one is a wonderful guitar, I prefer the reimagined one overall.