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  #16  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:07 AM
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drplayer drplayer is offline
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This is a somewhat silly debate. The C.F. Martin Guitar Company, despite its grand heritage, doesn't have a monopoly on nomenclature. That said, the "definition" of a guitar is defined only by it's builder, not by what Martin originally called it. Therefore, if Bill Collings, or Dana Bourgeois, or Richard Hoover, etc., want to call an Orchestra Model with a 12-fret join a OM-12, or offer a 12-fret join or short-scale as an OM option, then that's what it is. I love Martin's, but they don't define all of guitardom...
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:12 AM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
This is a somewhat silly debate. The C.F. Martin Guitar Company, despite its grand heritage, doesn't have a monopoly on nomenclature. That said, the "definition" of a guitar is defined only by it's builder, not by what Martin originally called it. Therefore, if Bill Collings, or Dana Bourgeois, or Richard Hoover, etc., want to call an Orchestra Model with a 12-fret join a OM-12, or offer a 12-fret join or short-scale as an OM option, then that's what it is. I love Martin's, but they don't define all of guitardom...
This thread is not about questioning Martin, or any builders labeling of their work. But, I say AMEN to these comments. I am interested in the design, not what it is called.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:16 AM
1Charlie 1Charlie is offline
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Originally Posted by terrapin View Post
Besides the short-lived Martin 000-18 and -28 Norman Blakes, the VERY limited Santa Cruz 000-18 Rising Fawn and the Bourgeois OMS-12-fret do any other companies (not small scale luthiers) build a 12-fret guitar with true OM body dimensions? Basically 12-fret necks on 14-fret OM (000) bodies? The SCGC Rising Fawn and Martin guitars are short-scale, the Bourgeois is standard scale. I have fallen big time for this design and am just interested.

Thanks
Huss and Dalton makes a killer 000 12-fretter in either mahogany/sitka or rosewood/sitka.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:19 AM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Huss and Dalton makes a killer 000 12-fretter in either mahogany/sitka or rosewood/sitka.
But is it a 12-fret 000 body, or a 14-fret 000 body with a 12-fret neck. I would bet H and D would build a good one!
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:30 AM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Lakewood does them, although the body is a little curvier and deeper than an OM. This is my A-14.

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  #21  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:35 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
This is a somewhat silly debate. The C.F. Martin Guitar Company, despite its grand heritage, doesn't have a monopoly on nomenclature. That said, the "definition" of a guitar is defined only by it's builder, not by what Martin originally called it. Therefore, if Bill Collings, or Dana Bourgeois, or Richard Hoover, etc., want to call an Orchestra Model with a 12-fret join a OM-12, or offer a 12-fret join or short-scale as an OM option, then that's what it is. I love Martin's, but they don't define all of guitardom...
There is some confusion here between a name and a description.

I can name my dog "Horse," but that will not make him a horse.
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2016, 10:38 AM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
There is some confusion here between a name and a description.

I can name my dog "Horse," but that will not make him a horse.
That's a great way to look at this! I never intended to start a labeling debate. Just wanted to discuss a design.
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:46 PM
Nort Nort is offline
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As to the SCGC Rising Fawn,

As Tadol pointed out the body depth,
it's also the standard 000 12 fret body shape,
rather than the square shouldered OM / 000 14 fret body.
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  #24  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:48 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Originally Posted by Nort View Post
As to the SCGC Rising Fawn,

As Tadol pointed out the body depth,
it's also the standard 000 12 fret body shape,
rather than the square shouldered OM / 000 14 fret body.
Thanks, did not know this.
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:59 PM
00-28 00-28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
This is a somewhat silly debate. The C.F. Martin Guitar Company, despite its grand heritage, doesn't have a monopoly on nomenclature. That said, the "definition" of a guitar is defined only by it's builder, not by what Martin originally called it. Therefore, if Bill Collings, or Dana Bourgeois, or Richard Hoover, etc., want to call an Orchestra Model with a 12-fret join a OM-12, or offer a 12-fret join or short-scale as an OM option, then that's what it is. I love Martin's, but they don't define all of guitardom...
With this reasoning, I'm glad Ford didn't call their 1964 Mustang a 4 seat Corvette.

......Mike
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:15 PM
1Charlie 1Charlie is offline
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Originally Posted by terrapin View Post
But is it a 12-fret 000 body, or a 14-fret 000 body with a 12-fret neck. I would bet H and D would build a good one!
The H&D 12-fret 000 has a real-deal 12-fret body, modeled on an early '30's era Martin 000, before the advent of 14-fret instruments.
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 00-28 View Post
With this reasoning, I'm glad Ford didn't call their 1964 Mustang a 4 seat Corvette.

......Mike
Why, would calling a '64 Mustang a 4-seat Corvette make it any less or different of a car??? The point is, if Ford DID call it a 4 seat Corvette, then in the Ford vernacular that's what it would be, and that is what you would order & buy if you wanted that particular Ford. No different than if Collings (for example) would call an Orchestra Model with a 12-fret join and short-scale, a OM-12SS. If you wanted THAT guitar, that is what you would order & buy...pretty simple really. What would be your alternative? "Oh no, you don't understand Bill...I want that guitar, but I want to call it what Martin does?" That would be ridiculous, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, this is quite off topic from the OP's original intent, so no more posts of this nature from me...
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'71 Harmony Buck Owens American
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"Lean your body forward slightly to support the guitar against your chest, for the poetry of the music should resound in your heart."
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:44 PM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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...i once played a Santa Cruz custom 12 fret OM...brazilian/red spruce....true square shouldered OM body shape....with a 12 fret neck with slotted headstock...it was one of the very best instruments i've laid my hands on...it was 10 grand more than ten years ago so it was out of my price range but its one of the few guitars that i still think about after all these years...i'm kinda surprised you don't see them more often..

Last edited by J Patrick; 08-24-2016 at 01:50 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:47 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
Why, would calling a '64 Mustang a 4-seat Corvette make it any less or different of a car??? The point is, if Ford DID call it a 4 seat Corvette, then in the Ford vernacular that's what it would be, and that is what you would order & buy if you wanted that particular Ford. No different than if Collings (for example) would call an Orchestra Model with a 12-fret join and short-scale, a OM-12SS. If you wanted THAT guitar, that is what you would order & buy...pretty simple really. What would be your alternative? "Oh no, you don't understand Bill...I want that guitar, but I want to call it what Martin does?" That would be ridiculous, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, this is quite off topic from the OP's original intent, so no more posts of this nature from me...
...but very correct!
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:03 PM
sayheyjeff sayheyjeff is offline
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Might send AGFer Boone an email about the 12 fret om ala Norman Blake model he had custom built by DC phenom luthier Todd Stock. Incredible sound comes out of that guitar and it's an absolute beauty. Only a year or so old, it figures to get even better.

Jeff
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