The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 09-20-2008, 09:01 AM
Grenvilleter Grenvilleter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 336
Default

"Nahh.
First of all, these grooves don't look like they could be "tuned" to the top like braces can. Once you scour those grooves in, you can't undo it. At least with braces you can just replace one if you over do it.
Secondly, there is another way to remove mass from a top...make it thinner.
Builders have had centuries to play with top geometry.
Radiusing the top....tapering the edges.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Never seen you here before! "
-------------------------------------------------------------

Errr...Sorry everyone. I've been lurking here for months and just recently been cleared to post through an error in the server.
I have enjoyed many hours of reading here. Thanks !

Regarding Blueberry guitars, I have seen and played a couple. Esteban's and Zagers, they are the farthest thing from.
They are actually well crafted guitars and a perticular dread (hog/spruce) I tried did not take a back seat to anything.

The perticular model that I enjoyed playing was called the "Celtic Lion". Blueberry placed only 3 back braces and did away with 1 diagional lower bout brace on the top as well making the guitar very light and resonate. Actually, the guitar was a powerhouse.
The carving detail was exceptionally well done and flawless. Visually, I had mixed feelings about it. Specifically, the headstock despite it being flawless as well.

Current guitars I own include a '85 Beneteau Dred spruce/EIR, Blueridge BR-260, a ported and polished Sigma hog lam/solid spruce and a solid hog/ spruce pacrim Revival (new kids on the block).

I've played bluegrass/country since '80 and grew up with Martins and Gibson's.
I currently play in a classic country dance band and occasionally mandolin in a little local bluegrass band. Mandolins include a '61 Gibson F-12 and a "A" style mando I put together from a kit.

Many guitars I rate, I use the Beneteau as a benchmark but I don't try to compare apples with oranges or hogs with rosewood. I do get my hands on some Martin D-18's quite regular and the juiced up Sigma compare's with them generally speaking. My benchmarks are not Esteban's thaat is for sure.

I'll reserve judgement on these groove topped Blueberries until I get to see one in my hand and pound it a bit.
It's posssible they may have something or they may be a gimmick trying to create a buzz.
Regardless, if they sound like the Blueberry I got to preview, and the workmanship remained consistant, anyone would be hard pressed to critizise it.

Thanks Everyone for allowing me to contribute.
  #17  
Old 09-20-2008, 01:31 PM
PMC PMC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 207
Default

I have not played one. After seeing what they cost there is no way I would pay that much for a guitar that looked like they do. Thats just....well.....no way.

I know....I know.....Its all about the tone, but even if I played one and it had the tone, I still wouldnt buy it.

Thats just my opinion.
  #18  
Old 09-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Kevin Gallagher Kevin Gallagher is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saylorsburg, PA
Posts: 1,098
Default

PMC,
Don't fall prey to the old "it's all about tone" ploy to get you to buy guitars that are poorly or sloppily crafted and poorly finished.

Any builder who is worth their salt in this industry has gone to great lengths and has made huge investments in both time and finances to build their skill in every aspect of the craft.

Believe me, sloppy joints in binding, poorly fitted necks and other components are just the obvious and more visible indications of either a lack of skill or a lack of concern for and attention to detail on the builder's part. If they won't take the time to make sure that the visible joints are very clean and as close to perfectly fitted as possible, what would ever lead anyone to believe that they would take the time on the joints inside the guitar and between the components that are responsible for the creation of its tone through the free transfer of vibration. Sloppy and poorly fitted on the outside usually is an indicator of the same being present throughout.

I've never bought it as I've heard builders say, "Well I'm not worried about the purfling miters or the finish on my guitars since tone is what I specialize in and that's been the main focus for me as I've developed my skill as a builder. Fit and finish don't matter and my customers are more discerning, educated players who really know quality when they see it". That's laughable and is the biggest crock of trash that a builder can possibly offer in defense of their lack of discipline and attention to detail and their poor workmanship.

I know one builder who is really a novice at the craft and has only built a few guitars, but he touts himself as world being renowned and claims to be receiving world class accolades from well known artists. His guitars are an absolute mess in most respects and look like the beginning luthier's instruments that they are, but his aggressive and shameless, not to mention deceptive self promotion has paid off as people are beginning to believe it and are waiting for guitars that will likely prove to be huge disappointments to them when they get them.

Just because someone lists themselves among the very best in the world....no one else has to until the guitars that they're building does it for them.

A great looking guitar with very nice detail achievement in every respect will likely have great tone if the builder has any level of experience. There are plenty of great looking pieces coming out of shops of entry level builders who haven't cut their chops fully yet in the tone department.

So, I guess my point is that the appearance part is the easy part to develop to a point where world class results are being achieved....the tone part is what really takes the time. One is more mechanical since it takes advantage of great tools, lots of jigs and fixtures and good general woodworking skills while the other takes advantage of and cannot be accomplished without the intuition and insight that can only come from numbers of guitars built and exposure to more and more guitars repaired and listened to closely to develop a sharp sense of what works as well as what doesn't work when it comes to creating great tone, response and balance in a guitar.

Too many times I've seen posts from guys who are initiating commissions with young builders who have only a small number of guitars under their belts and want to validate their purchase by claiming that the guitars are as good as those coming out of the shops of builders who have multiple times the number of guitars
to their credit.....and at a fraction of the price! I've played guitars from many of the new guys that are very nicely built, but still reflect an undeveloped tone or a lack of the results that can come only with time and the type of growth that comes with it and nothing else. It makes the player feel better that they're getting a guitar built from the very same woods, with the same finish and a similar design as that of their much more expensive counterparts, but the diffrence is readily obvious in most cases and the fact remains that they are still getting what they are paying for.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Last edited by Kevin Gallagher; 09-20-2008 at 03:40 PM.
  #19  
Old 09-20-2008, 03:47 PM
JohnM JohnM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewart4328 View Post
Okay lets start with when I received the guitar which was about two weeks ago....snip...If you have anymore questions, let me know, I would be pleased to answer as best I can. I'll post some pics when I have more time!! Take care all!
Is that you Mr. Blueberry?
  #20  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:23 PM
stewart4328 stewart4328 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Unhappy Okay just to clear this up!!

You know what, I am getting tired of people insinuating that I own or work for Blueberry. My name is Stewart Curry, I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I am a salesman for a company by the name of Konica Minolta Canada. Prior to that I worked for Heidelberg Canada a manufacturer of printing presses. If I had posted a good review on a Martin or a Taylor or a Babicz or Benateau no one would accuse me of doing under handed marketing for a guitar company. I am a guy who works hard for his money and wanted to post my impressions of the Groove for those who were curious. Kevin Gallagher may very well be right, maybe the grooves do nothing to the sound. Bottom line remains is that I personally like the performance, sound and tone of this guitar. This is not a guitar with sub standard binding or sloppy craftsmanship. The other partner in this company is George Morris who runs the Vermont school of lutherie. This not some guy who decided on the fly to try to contract some work to some Balinese wood carvers who had never made guitars before. The workshop is owned by three partners, one of them being George Morris. The shop employes about 50 people that work solely for Blueberry. The reason for the ebay store is for one reason. They needed to sell guitars! You cannot keep a shop that employs 50 people going for very long unless you sell guitars. It was either start moving some guitars or wind things down. The shop can only produce 25-30 guitars a month. The owners are doing this because they are passionate about guitars! How do I know all this.....I must be an employee!!....All this info is available on their web site if you take the time to look. Bottom line I like the Groove and you can be sure that over time if I see issues with cracking or a bad neck or bridge pulling off, I will be the first one back here telling people of how things have taken a turn for the worst!! By the way if any of you need a photo copier let me know!!
  #21  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:34 PM
jlott00 jlott00 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 1,499
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewart4328 View Post
By the way if any of you need a photo copier let me know!!


im just glad you enjoy playing guitar and making music with your new guitar
__________________
I believe everything is a miracle
  #22  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:38 PM
JohnM JohnM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewart4328 View Post
You know what, I am getting tired of people insinuating that I own or work for Blueberry. My name is Stewart Curry, I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I am a salesman for a company by the name of Konica Minolta Canada. Prior to that I worked for Heidelberg Canada a manufacturer of printing presses. If I had posted a good review on a Martin or a Taylor or a Babicz or Benateau no one would accuse me of doing under handed marketing for a guitar company. I am a guy who works hard for his money and wanted to post my impressions of the Groove for those who were curious. Kevin Gallagher may very well be right, maybe the grooves do nothing to the sound. Bottom line remains is that I personally like the performance, sound and tone of this guitar. This is not a guitar with sub standard binding or sloppy craftsmanship. The other partner in this company is George Morris who runs the Vermont school of lutherie. This not some guy who decided on the fly to try to contract some work to some Balinese wood carvers who had never made guitars before. The workshop is owned by three partners, one of them being George Morris. The shop employes about 50 people that work solely for Blueberry. The reason for the ebay store is for one reason. They needed to sell guitars! You cannot keep a shop that employs 50 people going for very long unless you sell guitars. It was either start moving some guitars or wind things down. The shop can only produce 25-30 guitars a month. The owners are doing this because they are passionate about guitars! How do I know all this.....I must be an employee!!....All this info is available on their web site if you take the time to look. Bottom line I like the Groove and you can be sure that over time if I see issues with cracking or a bad neck or bridge pulling off, I will be the first one back here telling people of how things have taken a turn for the worst!! By the way if any of you need a photo copier let me know!!
Ease up killer. I'm sure we are all (I know I am) joking.
  #23  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:42 PM
Rick Turner Rick Turner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 803
Default

50 employees at 25 to 30 instruments a month! Holy crap! Jeff Traugott has a better track record than that in man-hours per instrument...one man, one instrument a month, and Jim Olson has put out four guitars a month working solo. There's something wrong with this picture... If those are the real numbers, this is a business that's going to burn through its start-up capital at a phenomenal rate. Something's fishy...
__________________
Rick Turner
Luthier
  #24  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:45 PM
stewart4328 stewart4328 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Wink

Hey John, I guess my tone comes across more harshly than intended. I'm not
doing it to be "killer" I just feel bad for the guys at Blueberry because the people I have spoken with have been just awesome and super helpful!! I just don't want people who read this to think that Blueberry Guitars is run by some snake oil salesman names Stewart4328! This is a great forum and enjoy reading all the posts!!

Cheers!
  #25  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:48 PM
stewart4328 stewart4328 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Default

Rick,

They're in Bali....come on.
Why don't you check out their website, it's worth a look, really!!
  #26  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:56 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not where I thought I was going, but probably where I need to be.
Posts: 18,603
Default

I will say this.
The history of the company, (a vacationer in Indonesia with no experience building guitars saw some local craftsmen carving Balinese designs in wood and said "Hey!! I got an idea!!"), sudden "burst onto the scene" marketing, eBay store, Video NAMM interview with the company owner ( when asked to play one to show how it sounds, he strummed a C chord that it looked like he had a hard time fingering. At least Estaban can play...and Zager kind of knows "Starway to heaven" ), overseas production by people with NO experience actually building guitars, much less high end custom built instruments.
And then there is the design.
Thousands of grooves carved into the top? It looks like somebody took a cheese grater to it.
(And WHY DO THE GROOVES HAVE TO GO ON THE TOP ??!! )
All added up, these do not shout out "This is a quality guitar company that knows what we are doing."

If anybody is interested in these, I suggest that you talk with luthiers who had a chance to see these at the last NAMM. I've heard some of their feedback.
Their reports are quite...interesting.

Along the lines of what Kevin has said...
there are many excellent builders out there who have spent years and years perfecting their craft. Their combintion of workmanship and tone is a thing of beauty.
There are several large guitar companies who have been producting quality instruments for decades and decades, whose guitars are played by thousands of knowledgeable professional players, and have contributed to the "Holy Grail" guitar lore.

I want a guitar that has quality in fit and finish. That has guitar tone. That plays well. I want it all.
There are too many other fantastic builders out there to tempt me for me to be enticed by a "Blueberry".
__________________

"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best."
Henry Van Dyke


"It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one"
Norman Maclean,
  #27  
Old 09-20-2008, 06:11 PM
Sammy_L_D Sammy_L_D is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 830
Default

To guys like Kevin:

It's a Canadian company owned by a few guys who have a factory over in Bali, who make these guitars, which then have some fancy wood carvings carved in. That's it.

I checked out the company for a bit for my workplace to see what the scoop on these guys were. Exchanged some emails with the rep, good guy. My coworkers also checked out these guitars at the MIAC show in Toronto a few weeks back with generally positive remarks, and stated that they're at a good price point for what they offer (at least in the entry range).

It's just a new, up and coming guitar company. I've heard that the first batch they released on the market were dreadfully built, but that they quickly got their stuff together once they determined this, and have improved substantially.

Give it a few years and you might see more of them. Time will tell. Although I'll agree on the assessment of the "grooves", can't see any reasoning behind that.

Get some pictures of yours Stewert, sounds sweet.

Last edited by Sammy_L_D; 09-20-2008 at 06:17 PM.
  #28  
Old 09-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not where I thought I was going, but probably where I need to be.
Posts: 18,603
Default

Feedback I've seen from luthiers who saw these at NAMM noted that;

"they were of very poor quality and that the fit and finish were terrible."

These are not priced at "entry level guitar" range...ie, same as Blueridge, Larrivee 03 series, Seagull, etc.
For what these are selling for, there are LOTS of EXCELLENT guitars one can purchase from world class builders like Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Larrivee, SCGC, used.

If somebody asks me should they consider one...I'd say that from all I've seen so far, if you have the money burning hole in your pocket and are buying one just to "experiment", go for it.
If this is about getting a quality guitar.....I'd think about looking elsewhere and avoid the risk.
__________________

"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best."
Henry Van Dyke


"It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one"
Norman Maclean,

Last edited by Jeff M; 09-20-2008 at 06:41 PM.
  #29  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:29 PM
Smack Smack is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post

These are not priced at "entry level guitar" range...ie, same as Blueridge, Larrivee 03 series, Seagull, etc.
Check out the prices on the Blueberry ebay store. Maybe they're selling guitars at an entry level price somewhere but that somewhere is not their ebay store. Imagine the fine guitars you could get for these prices!

By the way saw some of these at a trade show in Montreal in the summer of 2007 and I was not impressed. That said, to my eye the aesthetics are appalling so that may be tainting my eye/ear.

Regards,

Steve
  #30  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:46 PM
Sammy_L_D Sammy_L_D is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 830
Default

Never said once said entry-level range.

I'll clarify by saying their entry range. As in, where their prices start at (which I believe is somewhere around a thousand). I could be wrong: just from some of the research I've done, they start in that range.

And buying a guitar like that on eBay is ludicrous in my mind as well, I didn't notice the ads. In fact, I think buying ANY guitar from eBay is insanity. Try before you buy people, Blueberry has dealers.
Closed Thread

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=