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  #136  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:15 PM
Jaygits Jaygits is offline
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right on MuzicMaKen .... check out Tim Stafford (Blue Highway). He's swears by his CA, and that man is a pro's pro.

Cheers,

Jay
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  #137  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:17 PM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzicMaKen View Post
Like I said, with the CA' guitars, I bought them because they need no maintenance, because they didn't need neck adjustments or neck resets or refreted .

If you fully believe this, I have a bridge for sale in NY...
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  #138  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:01 PM
gitnoob gitnoob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
If you fully believe this, I have a bridge for sale in NY...
Hey, I'll take one of them bridges!

Whether it's true or not, "worry-free" is absolutely how I view my CA guitars, and it's why I bought them. If nothing else, it's a good story, and people love a good story.

I think it's in Peavey's best interest to keep that dream alive.
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  #139  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:21 PM
MuzicMaKen MuzicMaKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
If you fully believe this, I have a bridge for sale in NY...
I do believe it...I use them.....

Larry, I like everyone else respect the heck out of you and know you know your stuff and my reply is in no way intended to be disrespectful to you, but there is no need to try to make us look like idiots with your comments, because we disagree with you...

Those who disagree have been belittled by your comments. IF I didn't believe in the guitar I wouldn't have bought it.


So please instead of belittling us or looking down on us...maybe educate us in a respectful way..I don't disagree that some would like a truss rod for whatever reason they have, But for those of us who bought CA guitars bought them because we knew they didn't have a truss rod as well as other reasons...I have had one of my CA"s for some time and the only "maintenance" I've had to do to them was change strings...
But I also see and understand your point of view on the issue of a truss rod.

Like I said you're a respected person around here and I've learned a few things from your posts, but there is no reason to disrespect some of us...I admitted I am not knowledgeable on the technical side or the science of guitar making, but I do know how to thoroughly inspect a guitar to my liking.
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  #140  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzicMaKen View Post
I do believe it...I use them.....

Larry, I like everyone else respect the heck out of you and know you know your stuff and my reply is in no way intended to be disrespectful to you, but there is no need to try to make us look like idiots with your comments, because we disagree with you...

Those who disagree have been belittled by your comments. IF I didn't believe in the guitar I wouldn't have bought it.


So please instead of belittling us or looking down on us...maybe educate us in a respectful way..I don't disagree that some would like a truss rod for whatever reason they have, But for those of us who bought CA guitars bought them because we knew they didn't have a truss rod as well as other reasons...I have had one of my CA"s for some time and the only "maintenance" I've had to do to them was change strings...
But I also see and understand your point of view on the issue of a truss rod.

Like I said you're a respected person around here and I've learned a few things from your posts, but there is no reason to disrespect some of us...I admitted I am not knowledgeable on the technical side or the science of guitar making, but I do know how to thoroughly inspect a guitar to my liking.
I'm sure you believe in the guitar...I believe in most of the purchases that I make.

Even stainless steel frets will require replacement, over time. When they do, you will discover that to replace them is more expensive than with standard fretwire...but you seem unaware that the guitars will require re-fretting, after enough playing time. Prior to that, a fret-dress will also be more expensive, due to the stainless steel frets.

There may be other maintenance issues that crop up over time, and these have been mentioned on the two current CA/Peavey/Cargo threads...but most have chosen to ignore these issues (changing neck-relief with different gauge strings, etc.).

I am not disrespectful of you, nor of your choice. Re-read my other posts.

I only am interested in the truth beyond the market-speak.

The first Cargo I purchased was defective, and replaced by CA. This was early-on after the Cargo was introduced. It was outside of even their specs for neck-angle, and the guitar could not be set-up properly by anyone. I was pleased with the customer service on the replacement, but not pleased with the product itself...nor the replacement.

I do not know if the instrument I returned was destroyed or re-sold.

I also received a Cargo from another retailer that was cracked along the area where the body meets the neck. This was just after CA had closed their doors, so while the retailer refunded my money, I have no idea if he ever received compensation for a guitar that was essentially broken and un-repairable.

I greatly respect what CA tried to do. I have called the Cargo "brilliant" and "genius" in concept on this thread and others.

Disregarding the fact that problems can affect these guitars is not something I am capable of...and much of my posting on these threads has pointed this out...that problems can and do occur.

Your post stated that CA guitars never require maintenance.

This is simply not true...nor are their necks as "stable" (as you stated) as CA would have had you believe, when they were open for business.

These are the realities of the world.

There is no real need to "defend" your choice with the CA product, but if you do choose this path, it's best to fully understand what can and does happen to these guitars.
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  #141  
Old 07-26-2010, 02:47 AM
benplaut benplaut is offline
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This is slightly offtopic, but Larry alluded to it--

If I have a CA/carbon guitar with good neck angle and proper relief (for the strings I am using), am I to expect the neck to move over time? As I understood, one of the primary advantages of carbon fiber is it's ability to retain elasticity almost indefinately.
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  #142  
Old 07-26-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygits View Post
Hi all,

I barely know how to post on here, although I've been reading since it was the Taylor Forum (2002). I was the VP of Sales and Marketing at CA for a brief moment. Some of you can blame me for things, while others would likely thank me for the very same. One of those things was identifying, naming and building a sales/marketing plan around an amazing little guitar that Ellis Seal created called the Cargo. It is to Ellis's credit, by the way, that the Cargo exists today. It is, to my mind, one of his greatest achievements in guitar innovation and design. At one time, we (the CA Mgt team) joked about calling what became Cargo, "the Ellis."

I'll reserve most comments, as it's likely that I know a bit too much - not because I'm that smart, but rather because I was there for so much of what we are all talking about today. Also, what I can add regarding CF guitar construction would likely pale in comparison to guys like Rick Turner - a man I respect a great deal. People like Rick, Ervin S., and JR, and others on here, these guys are all my friends .... I don't need to add much.

But, because of the Ricks, Ervins, Richard Hoover and great builders like Bruce Sexauer, I decided to join the AGF after all these years. These guys are the real teachers and this student is always ready for them to appear.

I do want to say one thing regarding the passionate arguments presented here regarding innovations and possible new developments on CA Guitars including the Cargo. Everything said in the above thread is completely valid. I have opinions either way. The only thing I would add is that many of the choices made in guitar manufacturing are made with regard to costs, price poetry, the ability to ensure success for the retail channel, and ultimately for the consumer. The other factor that often goes unmentioned in these discussions is how much the goals of the company play into the decisions made in product development. Your decisions around design innovation are often driven and limited by your ability to get things sold at a fair, sensible and reasonable price, and to put it simply, by how big you really want to be or need to be given how well the company is funded. That's the back-end of these discussions that doesn't get represented enough. Thankfully, you have the Rick Turners of the world who understand these aspects as well (excuse the name dropping - it's just how I feel).

I am happy to see CA coming back .... I wish it happened a little sooner for the sake of the brand. I like the "CA" brand, by the way, as opposed to "Composite Acoustics." It didn't matter to me what the company called itself as a dba, but I felt strongly about not going to market under those 2 words. To me it sounded more like a styrofoam factory in the hood than an innovative guitar manufacturer.

Thanks for all of the spirited discussions. Please be gentle with me if you choose to reply ..... hahahah ....

Best,

Jay
Jay, I think you'll find this good for the CA brand and concept overall. It will possibly get them into more stores and increase the brand recognition. Plus customers will get access to Peavey's support system.
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  #143  
Old 07-26-2010, 08:32 AM
Steve Christens Steve Christens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
If you fully believe this, I have a bridge for sale in NY...

Larry is beginning to sound like a scorned lover here - one who will never forgive CA for his Cargo not working out.

Larry please dial down the insulting tone. We all respect your playing ability, but you are not the only person here who knows a thing or two about guitar building and set up (or composite construction or polymer science). And while it might not be true for you, for the average player a carbon fiber guitar with stainless frets will be essentially maintenance free and immune to seasonal changes. If you don't accept that - that's fine.
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  #144  
Old 07-26-2010, 08:52 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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I would tend to not be quite so concerned with the stability of CA guitars as Larry, but I am sure I do not play as much as he does. For the average player the stainless steel fret will last a very long time, I would imagine my lifetime, but I am 59 years old at this point. But I have never had to refret my highschool guitar, a Gibson J-45 but have had many other issues that had to be addressed over the years. CA necks do flex but by a very small amount at least on my Legacy. If I have light guage strings on it, it is slightly under 6/64 on the low E. Mediums will take it just slightly over 6/64. If I had a trust rod I doubt that I would make an adjustment cause it is really fine tuning. If you are a professional I can see how this could be an issue but for the vast majority of players I doubt that it would be. I think the questioning of the stability of a carbon neck is a bit of a stretch. I am not loosing sleep over that one.
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  #145  
Old 07-26-2010, 09:51 AM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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I apologize to any that may have been offended by my approach on this topic.

It's in my nature to seek the truth (when possible), and also to be somewhat blunt with my observations and comments.

I do not intend to offend...I hope that this discussion (and the "poll" thread) have added to the knowledge base of those reading, and that we can all be more aware of what exists, and of what might be possible with Peavey and the former CA line-up.

Peace.
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  #146  
Old 07-26-2010, 10:09 AM
wilstev wilstev is offline
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Good to see CA will rise and it's good to hear they will make no changes, especially with regards to keeping the build here in the US, at least for now. My prediction however is that Peavey will eventually build the Cargo overseas using a less expensive material. One thing for sure, I will not be selling my Cargo anytime soon, in fact I will be looking for another.
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  #147  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:04 AM
Bullitt Bullitt is offline
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Forgive the question. Im VERY new here. What is the difference between the CA's and a Rainsong?
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  #148  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Steve Christens Steve Christens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Forgive the question. Im VERY new here. What is the difference between the CA's and a Rainsong?
Rainsong came first and paved the way. CA came along later, with the major contribution being that Ellis Seal came up with a way to add bracing to the top - that is not needed structurally - to affect the sound. As a result many folks feel that CAs sound more wood like than Rainsongs. CA also had some very unusual designs that got folks excited.

Rainsong has begun making some models that blend carbon fiber with kevlar (or is it fiberglass?) that are more mellow sounding. AND Rainsong has begun making carbon fiber guitars with adjustable necks.
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  #149  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:16 PM
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Wow! cool
I have a the CA Cargo and the Blade and love them!
I'm running the Blade Through a Phil Jones Cub and mic'ng the cub with an sm57 running into the Pa and I love it!
I'm getting a nice acoustic sound and I don't have to worry about fighting my way through shows and rehearsals with feedback.

Looking forward to checking out some more of what Peavey will do with the CA guitars

-ev
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  #150  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:52 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Heard they are going to try to have the whole lineup in stores by December, it will be fascinating to see the guitars again. They will be under CA name not Peavey I was told. Bet ya they get a great Cargo out first.
Steve
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