Nervous to make the change....(Nut, String Spacing, Body Size)

Rockguy475 · #1 03-02-2022, 10:37 AM

I'm a smaller sized guy (5"6') and have a smaller frame body size. I have always been comfortable with Martin dreadnoughts that have a 1 11/16 nut and 2 1/8 string spacing at the bridge. I'd say my playing style is 50% strumming, 25% flat picking, and 25% fingerstyle.

I'm in the process of getting a new guitar and there are two things I'm worried about.

The first is that all the Martins I have been eyeing now have different specs then what they used to come with a few years ago. Now most of them are 1 3/4 nut and 2 5/32 string spacing. Are these specs still strummer friendly?

Second.... I have been eyeing the smaller body (00 14-fret) size guitars as they seem so comfortable. I do not play live or with a mic. Only at my house, on the sofa, or at my shop. Can a 00 size guitar be used for a personal all-arounder? Can it handle stumming (not heavy just for personal enjoyment playing).

I wish I lived in a big city with music stores where I could go and try different guitars but that is not the case for me. I know ordering online I would have a return option with any reliable company with maybe a restocking fee but would like to avoid that hassle if possible.

I guess I'm just a little nervous about making a switch in body size (dread to 00) and nut width and string spacing. Have anyone of yall done this? I have always played a dreadnought because that's always what I associated as the guitar to play but the smaller bodys are starting to look so tempting.

JustMunkee · #2 03-02-2022, 10:44 AM

You and I are a very similar size (there might be a half inch in it if I stand up straight)... I've never got on with a dread...

Rather than drop down to a 00 (I own two of them), why not try a 000 or OM? You lose a little of that 'big' sound, and gain a fair bit of comfort.
For all round I use my OM21, for wanting a specific sound I use one of my two 00s. Personally I think the OM/000 is the sweet spot for all round. I use it at open mic/folk clubs here in the UK, it's got enough volume for that (the ones I go to are all unplugged), whether I'm strumming or fingerpicking (about 60:40 in favour of strumming).

As for nut width and string spacing - I've never had a problem going wider, my fingers adjusted very quickly.

Happy to answer any follow-ups etc

phil0021 · #3 03-02-2022, 10:55 AM

I played a 1970 D-28 (1 11/16 nut) for strumming for about 3 years. I then began fingerpicking and discovered that I couldn’t tolerate the slimmer neck, so I let the pendulum swing to a 00-21 with a 1 7/8 nut my fingerpicking dream. Though I always missed that dread tone, so when the “upgrade” to the D-28 became 1 3/4,I jumped on that. IMHO that nut is the very best all around. I still fingerpick 95%, but I’ll forever stay with a 1 3/4 nut. So there you have it - my 52 year Martin guitar neck trek.

SingingSparrow · #4 03-02-2022, 11:00 AM

Hey there. About the specifications: I know this is not what you want to hear, but only you can determine whether the 1 3/4" nut and 2 5/32" spacing will suit you.

In my limited experience, I have no issue switching from 1 3/4" nutted guitars to guitars with 1 11/16" nuts. I also don't have an issue fingerpicking on a 2 3/8" spacing or 2 3/16". My fingers adjust.

It would be impossible to say how you would experience these changes, but I do think most humans have the capacity to comfortably adjust. It does require a bit of work. Whether you want to make the effort, or if it even makes sense to, given the wide variety of guitars available these days, is up to you.

Re body size: well, yes, a 14 fret 00 will certainly be "enough guitar" to do it all. the sound will differ from your large body. stereotypically speaking, i find smaller bodies to have a more focused sound, a bit compressed - which is actually great for projection. bigger bodies have more depth, generally speaking anyway -- sort of more room to get lost in, as a player i think. which i really like.

i have generally played small bodies. and am now loving the experience of playing a slope shouldered dreadnaught. i think they both offer awesome experiences; i would not want to give up either.

but, no, personally, i would not be afraid to make the changes you have described. as long as the guitar meets my fancy, i'd probably pick it up. but any assurance that could offer another individual is unreliable at best. importantly: i am open about my expectations and willing to do a little bit of work to get comfortable with a guitar.

i bought a really popular guitar in december and it is taking me a long time to get used it. i am only now beginning to understand and appreciate it. and until just days ago, i kept thinking about selling it. and actually shot off a few frantic private messages to folks inquiring for a sale or trade. well, i am now very glad that i still have the guitar - it is freaking incredible! point is, i think it would be wise to expect to put in some work into getting along with a new guitar. i think if that attitude is in place, one can potentially find comfort and satisfaction in a variety of instruments regardless of specifications.

Cool555 · #5 03-02-2022, 11:16 AM

I'm of small stature too. My first guitar was a dreadnought, as I didn't know better, and thought I get more guitar for the money. It was uncomfortable to play.

Like JustMunkee said, a OM or 000 Martin would be a good size to get. I have a Martin 00-15m and would probably have preferred a 000-15m but the guitar shop had only 3 new 00-15m for me to play. My other 2 guitars, Yamaha and Faith are 000/OM sizes (15" lower bout), which are great. However, I must also add that I really have grown to like the Martin 00 size as it's super comfortable. So the shop not having a 000 may be a blessing in disguise.

In short, get a OM or 000, they are great sizes in the line of Martin guitars. Don't think you will go wrong with either. They (OM/000) have a bit more bass than the 00 size.

I do prefer 1-11/16" nut width but I'm quite adaptable as my Yamaha has a 1-3/4" nut width. I think the distance of the E-e string (37 mm) at the nut is an important consideration (more so than just the nut width per se).

Hope this is helpful. Happy Hunting for your next guitar!

rllink · #6 03-02-2022, 12:00 PM

Lots of guitar players also play mandolin, banjo, and ukulele. They switch around all the time. Changing to a different size guitar shouldn't pose an insurmountable obstacle I wouldn't think. For the record, I switch back and forth between a GS Mini and a Guild Dreadnaught all the time and if there is any adjustments going on I don't notice them

rllink · #7 03-02-2022, 12:06 PM

Duplicate post

Macpage · #8 03-02-2022, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockguy475

I have always been comfortable with Martin dreadnoughts that have a 1 11/16 nut and 2 1/8 string spacing at the bridge.

Now most of them are 1 3/4 nut and 2 5/32 string spacing. Are these specs still strummer friendly?

I would say sure!

This from a guy who still prefers 1-11/16". The only way you will know how it works for you is to try to get a least a little audition time or hedge your purchase with a good return policy. Sometimes, it's worth the going the extra mile. As mentioned, other aspects of the neck and string spacing may be just as important to one's preference. For me, I do think the typical Martin MLO/HP neck is one of the good ones for going 1-3/4" initially after playing 1-11/16" if you don't mind thinner necks.

I went out and played a bunch and purchased my favorite moderate priced 1-3/4" nut guitar just to bring one home and see how it went. I can play it, and there are some things better about my playing with it. With strumming, I don't really notice the difference. Yet, I still reach for my smaller nut guitars for more intricate soloing and some fingerstyle. It's just with these the positives are more important to me, and I can play a little longer with less fatigue. You may prefer the 1-3/4" or not even notice a difference. You won't know until you try.

As to smaller body, I'm with everyone else. I enjoy them and agree that the OM/000 is a great middle ground. If you include deeper bodies/small jumbos as an extension of this size group, you can expand the available tonal profiles even further.

Good luck and I hope you find a nice one to enjoy.

Best,

Mac

brencat · #9 03-02-2022, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockguy475

I'm in the process of getting a new guitar and there are two things I'm worried about.

The first is that all the Martins I have been eyeing now have different specs then what they used to come with a few years ago. Now most of them are 1 3/4 nut and 2 5/32 string spacing. Are these specs still strummer friendly?

Second.... I have been eyeing the smaller body (00 14-fret) size guitars as they seem so comfortable. I do not play live or with a mic. Only at my house, on the sofa, or at my shop. Can a 00 size guitar be used for a personal all-arounder? Can it handle stumming (not heavy just for personal enjoyment playing).

Yes on question #1, and a big fat NO on question #2

2 5/32 string spacing is only 1/32 wider than 2 1/8" so you will not notice it on your picking hand. 1st position is where you will feel the nut difference on your fretting hand. Instead of the string spacing being a tight 1.4375" as it is on a 1 11/16" nut guitar, the E-to-e spacing will be 1.5." Although that sounds miniscule in the grand scheme, your fingers can easily detect the extra spacing. If you any complaints at all with the MLO/PA taper neck, I'd bet it's going to be in how shallow depthwise it is, especially compared with older Martins from the 80s and earlier, before they had multiple different neck shapes and profiles.

Now the small guitars thing... you noted 75% of your playing is done with a pick, and only 25% fingerstyle. If you're used to the power and deep throated growl of a dread, a small guitar like a 00 (and even many OMs) will sound boxy. I've been down this rabbit hole, owned a lot of different OMs over the years including a Merrill OM-18 which was the most powerful of them all. They're all gone now. If you're primarily a strummer or flatpicker, there's no replacement for displacement. If you want to fingerpick, maybe look into a J-45 or D-35 which are great for that and are still dreads.

jaymarsch · #10 03-02-2022, 12:56 PM

I cannot comfortably play dreads either. I have a deep body grand concert that is the perfect compromise for me. It has a more pleasing bass than most OM/OOO models that I have played yet still very balanced. I had it custom made back in 2003.
I also have a custom scaled down slope shoulder model by another luthier that gives me more projection so I prefer it for strumming, especially when I’m using a pick.
You might check out the playing of Eric Skye as he plays a Santa Cruz OO in a variety of styles of playing. You can hear how good a OO can sound.
Best,
Jayne

rmp · #11 03-02-2022, 12:56 PM

I too am 5'6"

I have a few jumbos, a dread, and a few GA sized bodies

ya know, I really don't think I can say I have a problem with the bigger ones.

But,, I do like the compact feel of the GAs and I'm less clumsy with them.

egordon99 · #12 03-02-2022, 02:53 PM

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=544392

When you had your 00-45, how did you think it handled strumming?

Rockguy475 · #13 03-02-2022, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egordon99

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=544392

When you had your 00-45, how did you think it handled strumming?

I did not like it for strumming which is why it was returned. The string spacing on that was even wider then the 2 5/32 spacing and did not feel natural for strumming.

egordon99 · #14 03-02-2022, 03:22 PM

My 00-18 works great for strumming. I have no idea what the nut width is.

Brent Hutto · #15 03-02-2022, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brencat

Yes on question #1, and a big fat NO on question #2

2 5/32 string spacing is only 1/32 wider than 2 1/8" so you will not notice it on your picking hand. 1st position is where you will feel the nut difference on your fretting hand. Instead of the string spacing being a tight 1.4375" as it is on a 1 11/16" nut guitar, the E-to-e spacing will be 1.5." Although that sounds miniscule in the grand scheme, your fingers can easily detect the extra spacing. If you any complaints at all with the MLO/PA taper neck, I'd bet it's going to be in how shallow depthwise it is, especially compared with older Martins from the 80s and earlier, before they had multiple different neck shapes and profiles.

Now the small guitars thing... you noted 75% of your playing is done with a pick, and only 25% fingerstyle. If you're used to the power and deep throated growl of a dread, a small guitar like a 00 (and even many OMs) will sound boxy. I've been down this rabbit hole, owned a lot of different OMs over the years including a Merrill OM-18 which was the most powerful of them all. They're all gone now. If you're primarily a strummer or flatpicker, there's no replacement for displacement. If you want to fingerpick, maybe look into a J-45 or D-35 which are great for that and are still dreads.

If a 00 size Martin style guitar or L-00 Gibson style sounds boxy, you need to get a better guitar. Not a bigger one.

The only thing you're going to lose in the Dred-to-00 downsizing is some boom, boom, boom in the bottom octave. Plenty of 00 size guitars have loads of headroom in the midrange and treble and a controlled but ample bottom end.