Martin GPCPA-1

[chistrummer]

I played one last week and as much as I wanted to hate it, I didn't. In fact if I was newbie in a GC looking at the 814ce and the GPCPA, I would probably go with the Martin. Yikes, did I just type that???

[go7]

I have a GPCPA1 on loan. They lost the OMCPA1 I ordered.
Firstly I like the Martin sound. This guitar sounds every inch a Martin unplugged or plugged in.
Plays great, stays in tune very well. Very comfortable to play on stage standing up due to the offset strap button. The Aurora F1 system is very good took a little time to work through it but well worth the time.
Workmanship is flawless, better looking in person than photo`s.
Very comfy to play nice neck, well balanced still has that Martin Bark or growl I love.
It is one of those guitars that just "works" a nice package.
Competition is good for all of us players. I could never say better than a Taylor model??? That is up to the individual player.
I do like the fact that Martin has come out w/ a stage guitar.
IMHO a winner. They will sell well.Enjoy!

[shortymack]

Originally Posted by petelor

I played one last week and as much as I wanted to hate it, I didn't. In fact if I was newbie in a GC looking at the 814ce and the GPCPA, I would probably go with the Martin. Yikes, did I just type that???

I dont think a newbie would be looking at any of the two.

Ive always wondered why there is such a fanboy thing going on with guitars. Who cares who makes what as long as it sounds good and plays good to you.

[guitpic]

I'm thinking the Performer series are very good guitars...maybe could be a great guitar if the price point was right...it's not.

Even Martin isn't putting them in the class of their dovetail neck joint guitars.

To me, this is a guitar that should be compared more so to a class like the Taylor 414CE...not an 814CE...despite the fact that it's all gloss...which I don't think is a big deal actually.

For example, my 414CE LTD($2,000 or less...street price)has wood binding, abalone inlay, Taylor's best electronics, ebony bridge and fretboard etc....well you get the idea.

If the Performer series was more so in that $1,999(street)price, I would consider it a great guitar...perhaps that day is coming.

In any case...you gotta give Martin guitars credit...even when they fall a bit short.

Martin guitars has been under the gun to be the traditional(American)guitar company, to keep the price down and quality up as Taylor has been able to do with their American made guitars.

Chris Martin is trying to hang on to a bit of the history of Martin while moving on into the 21st century. I admire him and Martin for that.

I, for one, would like to see the Performer series(and Martin guitars in general)make it.

I just can't buy in until the guitar is at the price point it belongs.

[310Taylor]

Originally Posted by guitpic

I'm thinking the Performer series are very good guitars...maybe could be a great guitar if the price point was right...it's not.

Even Martin isn't putting them in the class of their dovetail neck joint guitars.

To me, this is a guitar that should be compared more so to a class like the Taylor 414CE...not an 814CE...despite the fact that it's all gloss...which I don't think is a big deal actually.

For example, my 414CE LTD($2,000 or less...street price)has wood binding, abalone inlay, Taylor's best electronics, ebony bridge and fretboard etc....well you get the idea.

If the Performer series was more so in that $1,999(street)price, I would consider it a great guitar...perhaps that day is coming.

In any case...you gotta give Martin guitars credit...even when they fall a bit short.

Martin guitars has been under the gun to be the traditional(American)guitar company, to keep the price down and quality up as Taylor has been able to do with their American made guitars.

Chris Martin is trying to hang on to a bit of the history of Martin while moving on into the 21st century. I admire him and Martin for that.

I, for one, would like to see the Performer series(and Martin guitars in general)make it.

I just can't buy in until the guitar is at the price point it belongs.

I dont know. Sitka spruce, indian rosewood, ovangkol biniding, ebony board bridge headplate, bone pins, bone nut and saddle (I thiink), very nice inlay work, intelligent pickup. I dont get the price argument. Martin didnt spare any expense. Maybe the bracing and the m&t neck but in my opinion it sounds excellent. You dont see appointments like that on martins under 3 grand.

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by 310Taylor

I dont know. Sitka spruce, indian rosewood, ovangkol biniding, ebony board bridge headplate, bone pins, bone nut and saddle (I thiink), very nice inlay work, intelligent pickup. I dont get the price argument. Martin didnt spare any expense. Maybe the bracing and the m&t neck but in my opinion it sounds excellent. You dont see appointments like that on martins under 3 grand.

You have a choice of a D18, D18VS, D21 Special, D35 all at the same or a much much lower price point.

If you need a orchestra size you ar limited to OM21, OM21 Special, OM21V.

There are alot of options in the standard Martin family where you can get the great hand scalloped bracing, great bracing, and true Martin sound for much less or the same price as this new gussied up 16 with a strange name they have introduced in a Taylor shape.

Martin could have done so well with these guitars if they had entered the market at a very aggressive retail pricepoint, but they did not. They placed it to compete with a price that is nearly identical to the 800 series Taylor. What were they thinking? I cant imagine choosing essentially an OM16 with a nice prickup and a funky pickguard over a 814ce or GS8e. No way.

[wb4yal]

Played it, didn't care for how the neck felt on my hand. Looks like I will be looking for a Taylor on my next purchase.

[rmyAddison]

I'm one of the resident Martin geeks, let me give my thoughts.

I know a little about Martin, owned over 25 including uber high enders, Martin has so many models it can get very confusing. I have also owned the first generation Aura, an OMC-Aura and gigged with it for 6 years, to me it killed the 814ce I also bought, not an expression fan.

I can understand the price questions, the original Auras and the new Performing Artists are based on the 16 series, both in bracing and mortise/tenon neck. To me neither my Aura or the Performing Artists sound exactly like the standard Martin models and up, nor do the 16 series. They are brighter and slighly less complex in tone, but that can be a positive when amplified, and these are acoustic-electrics. I think that balanced, slightly brighter and less complex tone is by design, to suit purpose, and not a cost cutting exercise.

I have 5 figure Martins, the woods on my '04 OMC-Aura are surprisingly high quality and there is a lot of abalone and a 45 style rosette. While cosmetic these add cost to an instrument, and I believe the case is the same for the new Performing Artists. The difference in cost over a 16 series is better woods, the Aura system, inlays and binding, bound neck and better tuners, whether worth it is a personal decision, you can argue value about any instrument forever.

The GP is a visual Taylor clone, the OM and dread are more traditional Martin including the pickguard. The world has been copying Martins forever, Taylor grabbed the acoustic electric market and is trying to get into dreads, now Martin wants a piece of this new-er market, acoustic electrics.

Competition is good, it gives the consumer choices and weeds out the bad products. The GPCPA-1 was never intended to "sound" like a Taylor so folks have options, that's a good thing. I think the price is about right considering the woods, the not inexpensive Aura electronics, and the appointments. The market will decide, play what makes you happy.........

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

I'm one of the resident Martin geeks, let me give my thoughts.

I know a little about Martin, owned over 25 including uber high enders, Martin has so many models it can get very confusing. I have also owned the first generation Aura, an OMC-Aura and gigged with it for 6 years, to me it killed the 814ce I also bought, not an expression fan.

I can understand the price questions, the original Auras and the new Performing Artists are based on the 16 series, both in bracing and mortise/tenon neck. To me neither my Aura or the Performing Artists sound exactly like the standard Martin models and up, nor do the 16 series. They are brighter and slighly less complex in tone, but that can be a positive when amplified, and these are acoustic-electrics. I think that balanced, slightly brighter and less complex tone is by design, to suit purpose, and not a cost cutting exercise.

I have 5 figure Martins, the woods on my '04 OMC-Aura are surprisingly high quality and there is a lot of abalone and a 45 style rosette. While cosmetic these add cost to an instrument, and I believe the case is the same for the new Performing Artists. The difference in cost over a 16 series is better woods, the Aura system, inlays and binding, bound neck and better tuners, whether worth it is a personal decision, you can argue value about any instrument forever.

The GP is a visual Taylor clone, the OM and dread are more traditional Martin including the pickguard. The world has been copying Martins forever, Taylor grabbed the acoustic electric market and is trying to get into dreads, now Martin wants a piece of this new-er market, acoustic electrics.

Competition is good, it gives the consumer choices and weeds out the bad products. The GPCPA-1 was never intended to "sound" like a Taylor so folks have options, that's a good thing. I think the price is about right considering the woods, the not inexpensive Aura electronics, and the appointments. The market will decide, play what makes you happy.........

I agree with some of your points, but on a Martin, as well as any other factory guitar, the aesthetic items such as abalone, binding material, fretboard markers, etc are nothing more than price point differentiators. Does it cost 1000 dollars to change the material for the rosette from fiber to abalone? Or what about the binding from PVC to wood. Fretboard markers?

I will agree that there was a time when these items added more cost, but still not a ton. Now that CNC has arrived in guitar factories these items add 20-30 minutes tops to the production of a guitar. In the cost scheme of things that is insignificant.

Martin simply blew it on the price point for the performer series of guitars. That mistake I believe will be what cause the line to become yet another small paragragh in the next Martin history book. One of Mike Longworths favorite quotes about Martin guitars was "We start the the Martin tone and build a guitar". They did not do that with the performer series.

[guitpic]

Originally Posted by wooglins

You have a choice of a D18, D18VS, D21 Special, D35 all at the same or a much much lower price point.

If you need a orchestra size you ar limited to OM21, OM21 Special, OM21V.

There are alot of options in the standard Martin family where you can get the great hand scalloped bracing, great bracing, and true Martin sound for much less or the same price as this new gussied up 16 with a strange name they have introduced in a Taylor shape.

Martin could have done so well with these guitars if they had entered the market at a very aggressive retail pricepoint, but they did not. They placed it to compete with a price that is nearly identical to the 800 series Taylor. What were they thinking? I cant imagine choosing essentially an OM16 with a nice prickup and a funky pickguard over a 814ce or GS8e. No way.

Wooglins,

I never thought about it but I agree with you. My impression is that the Performer series is an upgraded Martin 16 series.

I'm sure it's a great guitar and I would encourage anyone wanting one to go for it.

As for me, the guitar would have to hit a Martin 16 price point for me to be interested.

[guitpic]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison;2327049
Competition is good, it gives the consumer choices and weeds out the bad products. The GPCPA-1 was never intended to "sound" like a Taylor so folks have options, that's a good thing. I think the price is about right considering the woods, the not inexpensive Aura electronics, and the appointments. [B

The market will decide, play what makes you happy.[/B]........

Rich,

Hope you don't mind the edit.

I appreciated your insights as a Martin owner.

Good points and you are right, the market decides. If folks like the guitar, they will pay what the going price is.

Thanks again.

[jhchang]

Originally Posted by wooglins

Does it cost 1000 dollars to change the material for the rosette from fiber to abalone? Or what about the binding from PVC to wood. Fretboard markers?

How do you know it doesn't? Perhaps those items do add up to 1k altogether. Rosette: ~200; Wood binding: ~400; FB inlay: ~400.
Not their net cost but the price/upcharges. Check out what Taylor charges for choosing wood binding for a BTO. And Abalone rosette. Then you'd feel better.
Think them as upgrades. Yes they are not cheap, but I can't say they're insane.
You don't get wood binding on your D35/D18GE. Only cheap plastic.

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by jhchang

How do you know it doesn't? Perhaps those items do add up to 1k altogether. Rosette: ~200; Wood binding: ~400; FB inlay: ~400.
Not their net cost but the price/upcharges. Check out what Taylor charges for choosing wood binding for a BTO. And Abalone rosette. Then you'd feel better.
Think them as upgrades. Yes they are not cheap, but I can't say they're insane.
You don't get wood binding on your D35/D18GE. Only cheap plastic.

Well for one you can go right to http://www.lmii.com/ and get an idea of what the raw materials cost at a marked up rate to boot. For example enough binding to do a GS in Madagascar Rosewood costs about 5.00 dollars Wood binding. Another example would be the rossete which would set you back at retail prices about 25.00 for the materials needed for a Green Heart Abalone rossete. Forget about these costs, they are retail to the hobbiest, Taylor, Martin, and any other large MFG. are paying much, much, much less because they buy in very large quanities.

Think about it, you can get a PAC-RIM guitar with abalone around the body, the fretboard, the soundhole, pretty much everywhere you can dream it up at for less than 300 dollars. Same for wood bindings of all types. If the stuff was expensive those guitars would not exist.

The reality is that Bling is huge profit maker for the big guitar MFG's. Nothing wrong with that if the guitar has the tone to back it up. I do hate some of the upcharges on BTO Taylors sheet. For example Koa binding should not be a 600 dollar upcharge when the materials can be had from LMII for twenty dollars or so. But again, its bling and if the guitar has the tone to back it up, and the reputation to demand the upcharges then customers will be willing to pay it.

[jhchang]

You are right about the cost, however that's a totally different issue of a higher level. It's a general practice that most US makers follow, NOT just Martin or just Performing Artists per se. Why the upcharge is 100X over the material is beyond me.
Crazy? Absolutely. But it's a fact you can't change. Of course you don't need to care about it and look beyond; then you either just get plastic white binding or go with Asian guitars. That's also why luthier-made guitars possess more value.

[jerlialprophet]

Originally Posted by wooglins

I agree with some of your points, but on a Martin, as well as any other factory guitar, the aesthetic items such as abalone, binding material, fretboard markers, etc are nothing more than price point differentiators. Does it cost 1000 dollars to change the material for the rosette from fiber to abalone? Or what about the binding from PVC to wood. Fretboard markers?

I will agree that there was a time when these items added more cost, but still not a ton. Now that CNC has arrived in guitar factories these items add 20-30 minutes tops to the production of a guitar. In the cost scheme of things that is insignificant.

Martin simply blew it on the price point for the performer series of guitars. That mistake I believe will be what cause the line to become yet another small paragragh in the next Martin history book. One of Mike Longworths favorite quotes about Martin guitars was "We start the the Martin tone and build a guitar". They did not do that with the performer series.

Not to be contentious or anything but lets not forget that the list of a 914ce is $1370 more than an 814ce.