Learning to do my own set ups

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Nick84

I'm after help compiling a list of things I'll need. I want to do the full works. Set action, level and polish frets etc. What will I need?

I set up my guitars, but I stop at the fret work. Don't do that very often, and don't see the point in investing in the tools.

The most expense so far was been nut files. There are cheaper ways to deal with nut slots, but I decided to get the specialized tools. Unfortunately, nut slots aren't something you do very often either.

I agree that it's a good idea to start with a beater, and get the feel of the procedures.

A piece of heretical advice you can take or leave. Once you know what you're doing, and have everything adjusted in the right sequence, don't be afraid to use the truss rod to get that final set on the action. I adjust as low on relief as my picking style allows. A last resort when taking more off the saddle on a particular guitar is likely to result in a loss of volume.

As always, YMMV.

[Bugeyed]

Originally Posted by kydave

I would not rely on the linked site.

In my opinion, setting the saddle height should be the last thing you adjust, generally speaking.

Relief
Nut
Saddle

I agree with your order, but many don't have the tools to tackle the nut adjustment & are left to doingj just the saddle. His method uses a capo on 1st fret to do the height adjustment.
Kev

[Bugeyed]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

That is odd. He references Bryan Kimsey, then goes in the wrong order and recommends sanding the bottom of the saddle. All contrary to Bryan's work.

Bryan describes how to sand the bottom of the saddle. He prefers to work on the top of the saddle for the ability to adjust each string. That is a lot more work to do it properly & requires much skill to get the top of the saddle right. Unless your saddle needs to be reshaped or intonated, best to work from the bottom.

[Nick84]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm probably going to buy a used beater alto mess about with before I start meddling with my own guitars.

I've founds some tools on eBay that have been mentioned and I see it as a worthwhile investment. Hopefully when I get good at it I should get quite a bit of satisfaction : )

[RoyBoy]

Originally Posted by kydave

I would not rely on the linked site.

In my opinion, setting the saddle height should be the last thing you adjust, generally speaking.

Relief
Nut
Saddle

Depending on the player's style and attack, you may only need 0.007 - 0.011" clearance at the first fret. If you set your nut slots for that and then lower the saddle, you can end up with buzzes requiring filling of nut slots or shimming a nut, neither desirable. I prefer to set relief, capo at the 1st fret and set saddle height, then bring the nut slots down to final specs.

[Brucebubs]

I have made my own bone saddles for every guitar I own.
I buy bone blanks and copy the shape and intonation features from the original.
A small rotary hand tool like a Dremel with a sanding attachment is super fast.
I then fine tune the shape with small files and sanding.
I don't touch the original saddle, I keep it as the 'master'.
I use a digital Vernier caliper to accurately measure the height of the saddles and keep a record of the height I finally used stored with the original saddle.
I only have a very cheap set of nut files, more for cleaning nut slots than actually making a new nut.

[Basque]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

That is odd. He references Bryan Kimsey, then goes in the wrong order and recommends sanding the bottom of the saddle. All contrary to Bryan's work.

I think he tips his cap to Bryan Kimsey, then explains why he does it in his order. To capo the first fret while setting the relief then while setting the saddle height takes the nut height out of the equation and eliminates the need to back-track.

And sanding from the bottom is just easier for a simpleton like myself.

[jaybones]

After watching what a few music store's "techs" did, and asking the guy at the store I taught lessons for how he learned (he said he learned by watching others and asking questions) I thought "I can do that."

So I asked Tony (the guy at the store I taught for) a few specific questions, and trial and error (not many errors at first, but definitely a lot of trials) I got to be pretty profecient. I got so profecient that when I was in a working band, I'd do set ups on all the other guy's stuff, even offering to set up other band's for them.

I always said "I don't want any money, just pay my bar tab." Which they always agreed to, not knowing how much alcohol I could put away and still be able to play. I'd also make sure to give the sound a guy a round or two on my tab, as well as the rest of the band and the friends, hangers on and groupies.

In the end, the bar tab was usually close to $200.

First time I saw a "tech" set up my Stratocaster and he did the neck adjustment I thought he was going to break it in two. I started to freak out, and he said "Oh, that's just how you have to make sure the truss rod isn't binding up. A turn of the wrench, and a twist back and forth in the hands, then see where you're at."

After realizing that it took a lot to break a guitar neck (never broken one), and learning to adjust the saddle height and intonation I got, as I said, pretty profecient.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by RoyBoy

Depending on the player's style and attack, you may only need 0.007 - 0.011" clearance at the first fret. If you set your nut slots for that and then lower the saddle, you can end up with buzzes requiring filling of nut slots or shimming a nut, neither desirable

No professional measures the clearance at the first fret when doing a set-up (although it does actually work out to be .007" if you use Martin's lowest recommended action settings).

You measure the height of the base of the nut slots in relation to the height of the first two frets.

[Aaron Smith]

I can't recommend Dan Erlewine's books highly enough. Start here:

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Player-...r+repair+guide

Learning to do guitar work is a lifelong process, but a rewarding one. I've been at it for about 10 years, and I feel like I can do most things about as well as the pros in town, and some things a little better because I care more about my own guitar.

Start simple and work to hard. Basic setup can be done without much more than a set of nut files, sandpaper, and a mechanic's scale.

Saddles, nuts, and fretwork come next. As a generalization, you can make your guitar play pretty great on the first couple tries if you understand what you're trying to accomplish, and are patient. However, doing work that is cosmetically perfect takes a lot of practice. I'm now at the point that my saddles, nuts, and fretwork are shiny, smooth and professional looking. It took me a long time to get there.

[fazool]

This very comprehensive document by Charles Tauber is an excellent source of info.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Nick84

I'm after help compiling a list of things I'll need. I want to do the full works. Set action, level and polish frets etc. What will I need?

What you'll need depends largely on what methods you use to do the work. While there are some commonalities that are used by those who do setup work professionally, each guy has his own preferred methods. So, if you ask 10 different guys, you'll get 11 different lists of "what ya need". In most cases, all 10 guys can use their methods and their tools to produce a first-rate job. There are many methods that can be used to achieve the same result.

Hence, I suggest you start by choosing the methods of work you want to use and then acquiring the tools necessary to support that method. Chances are good that as your skills and knowledge develop, you'll change or abandon one method for another. But, choosing one to start with, and tooling-up for that method, is probably the way to go. How do you decide which method to start with? Personal preference: just choose one you like and go with it. One way to choose might be to select a method that requires fewer tools. Methods go from one extreme of a half-dozen simple tools to the opposite extreme involving manning the space shuttle.

Oh, and if you are serious about doing the work long-term, avoid the "cheap" solutions like welding tip cleaners instead of proper fret files or saws. If you are stranded on a desert island and all you have is a guitar and welding tip cleaners, sure, they'll work when that's all there is. By contrast, you don't need 90% of the "must-have" stuff people want to sell you.

[djh1765]

Originally Posted by Nick84

I've decided to start doing my own set ups. The amount of times I have had work done and then had to ask for more adjustments etc I'd rather just do it myself, save money and know it's exactly how I want it.

I'm after help compiling a list of things I'll need. I want to do the full works. Set action, level and polish frets etc. What will I need?

I think this is a good move on your point. Anyone with a little mechanical ability should be able to set up an acoustic guitar as long as it does not need a neck reset. That would be another animal that you would not want to tackle.
Go for it.

[Penrith Pete]

I have flitted between doing my own and using quite a few different techs / guitar builders.

I have concluded that doing my own is best.

I have to go slowly because I am not very talented in this area, but if I take my time I can get it right.

The best thing about doing my own is that I also use my ears. If a set-up is mathematically perfect but the guitar doesn't sound right, I will know, because I know the guitar.

An example of this a Furch-built Stanford I had set up by 3 different techs, two of whom are renowned builders too. They set it up according to received wisdom and did so with skill and accuracy - and it sounded horrible!

I knew from experience that this guitar, for whatever reason, sounded much more full and rich with a very low action and relatively little break angle. I don't know why - perhaps too much torque actually worked against the very lightly braced cedar top. In any case, though I can't explain it, I had to do it my way in order to regain that great sound - even though it went against received wisdom. I am not knocking those techs but my experience of having that guitar for 5 years helped me to get to the solution.

I took it back to one of the builders and showed him what I had done. He looked at me dubiously as I explained. Then I let him play it and could hardly believe it was the same guitar it was so much louder and better sounding with the very low action. He laughed and shook his head and said, to his credit, 'Well, you live and learn.'

Personally I think there is a lot to be said for getting to know your guitars through working on them and experimenting with saddle heights, materials etc and using your ears. But it takes patience especially if you are not a gifted tradesman - as I am certainly not!

I bought a fairly cheap set of files that have served me well and I do most everything else with sandpaper and files. I have no feeler gauges or callipers and measure everything with a ruler. My equipment cost me about £40 all told and I manage....if I take my time.

I don't fit USP or bridgeplate pickups though - not good at that...yet!

All the best
Pete

[Outhouse]

There is no reason not to learn this.


It is easy and just a simple matter of following steps.


In order

Level frets-------- Plenty of vids out there, but I use a sharpie and mark the high spots on the fret and use a metal file to get all the frets level.

Crown frets------- tape off each side of fret board use sharpie again to mark high spots and hand file each side building a round fret, leaving the top of fret untouched showing a thin black line from the sharpie. [use a fine file]


Polish frets---- I use #600 to clean up, then #1000


String guitar


Set neck relief-----truss rod adjustment


Set saddle height --------a hair high, 6/64


Set nut height -------to about a thin pick in height above the first fret. I use home made feeler gage file taking a hair off and measure every few passes as not to go to far.


Set intonation ---- and saddle height fine tuning height for each players wants and needs.



Tools needed

3 different hand files
feeler gauges
bench grinder
misc wet/dry sandpaper
time
tape

Just a rough guide for a basic easy set up.