Upgrade to my Behringer Acoustic ADI-21

[keith.rogers]

I hope this decision isn't keeping you from going to open mics! Certainly starting to sound like "analysis paralysis" when you could be going out there and figuring out whether it's going to be what you want, or will even work in an open mic?

Worst case, it fails one night and then you play on without it, and replace it with something else later. Not like you're going to replace anything other than maybe a battery on the spot at an open mic, and in the meantime, you can talk to hosts about what they'd want to see or allow, maybe save up some dollars and be able to at least consider other options. My 2¢, well, probably about 4¢ by now...

[Ralph124C41]

Last night I ordered the new Sonicake A Factory pedal. For some reason I got it for less than half the price shown at most retailers ... but this is coming to me from China and I have had some good and not-so-good problems with the retailer. So we will see.

It doesn't have a battery compartment so I wonder if I can use a 9-volt battery with a clip to power it when I go to a jam. Its demand is 60 mA and I know an alkaline battery has much more than that when new. I expect the battery will die fairly quickly but I will only need it for my 15 minutes or so of open mic "fame." At home I will just use a power unit.

I will get it within the next two weeks or so I'm told.

Thanks, folks, for your suggestions.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

The thing is I have a somewhat similar model, the BD121, which is made for a bass. Same plastic body, same controls. That one, however, soon developed a problem with one of the controls. All of the controls on both pedals feel, to me, a little ... uncertain to use a term. They just don't feel "right" and in the case of my BD 121 failed on one control.

Nothing against Behringer itself but I just don't trust plastic-bodied guitar pedals that are you expected to step on and off repeatedly and maybe with heavy boots. I have also had some Danelectro pedals and they have really given me some reliability problems.

So that is why I really would like a metal casing for any foot pedal.

Hi Ralph…
I understand your concern. Your mention of the failure on the BDI21 is the only 'failure' of one of these style pedals I've seen, and they've been getting talk around this forum for over a decade. I do understand the nature of plastic versus metal. Actually my Fishman Platinum Stage is made of Aircraft aluminum, but the knobs are still plastic. I originally bought the Behringer for loaning to friends and students who had a K&K or under saddle installed without a preamp, and they were looking to improve their sound through amps and PA systems.

It's definitely served it's purpose in that realm (and continues to).

It's a great starter unit, for occasional players, and upgrading for me had nothing to do with the quality of the ADI21…had to do with features and needs (stepping up to dual channel for pickup/mic combo, phantom power capability, more sophisticated tone, etc).

My upgrades started with a high bar with my Raven PMB I unit, which I discovered through the acoustic upright bass community. And the best preamp I owned (of the two channel variety) was a DTAR Solstice - also popular with the bass community.

These days I use K&K and ToneDexter.

Hope you enjoy the Sonicake Factory. There are great preamps out there, and they generally shape tone well and make our lives easier.

[PineMarten]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Thanks. So many ideas.

I do agree that if I am bothered by the supposed fragility of the ADI-21 that I could get another one or maybe a rival inexpensive unit like the new Sonicake Factory A or the even cheaper Caline CP-40.

I'd seen those, and the Sonicake in particular looks promising, but there's nothing in the description that indicates it can run on battery. For playing open mic nights with a quick turnaround, I wouldn't like to be fumbling around for an outlet on stage - a single small battery powered box is the most I'd want to be juggling. I tend to just bring my K&K Power Pack, an older model that appears to be essentially the Pure Preamp minus the mid control. I'm not going to attempt too much sophisticated EQ'ing at a plug-in-and-go open mic, with no soundcheck I feel like I could as easily make things worse by messing with that, and it does the job fine with my JJB pickups.

[kurth]

I've been using an adi21 for a few months in my studio. Needless to say I struggled to get what I paid for out of it...barely. I've got my sights set now on a Palmer Acoustic Pocket Amp. I didn't see too much mojo out of the Behringer. The so-called mic modeling is imperceptible. Also the mid sweep is below my ability to perceive any change. I was able to get a respectable tone by the further assistance of Bluecat. But whatever works for your respected situations. The Sonicake has even less tonal shaping abilities. Ps....if it's coming from china...it's price will be augmented by tariffs. That's why it was cheaper.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

[size=2]Hi Ralph…
I understand your concern. Your mention of the failure on the BDI21 is the only 'failure' of one of these style pedals I've seen, and they've been getting talk around this forum for over a decade.

That may be true. But if also may be true that if it happened to me once on the BD121 it could happen to me again on the somewhat similar AD121. It's just a chance I would like a Plan B for.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by kurth

The Sonicake has even less tonal shaping abilities. Ps....if it's coming from china...it's price will be augmented by tariffs. That's why it was cheaper.

Why do you say the Sonicake has less tonal shaping abilities than the BD121? And when I think of "tonal shaping" I think more of something like a modeling amp that will provide sounds not made by an acoustic guitar. I don't care for that ... I just would like it to sound as much like an acoustic guitar as possible. But perhaps your idea of tone shaping is not the same as mine.

As for any tariffs or customs fee, how much really would it add to a $25 purchase to a buyer who is not going to be a reseller and will use the device only for personal use?

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by PineMarten

I'd seen those, and the Sonicake in particular looks promising, but there's nothing in the description that indicates it can run on battery. For playing open mic nights with a quick turnaround, I wouldn't like to be fumbling around for an outlet on stage - a single small battery powered box is the most I'd want to be juggling. I tend to just bring my K&K Power Pack, an older model that appears to be essentially the Pure Preamp minus the mid control. I'm not going to attempt too much sophisticated EQ'ing at a plug-in-and-go open mic, with no soundcheck I feel like I could as easily make things worse by messing with that, and it does the job fine with my JJB pickups.

It does not run on a battery. I'm hoping (and that's what it is) that I can use a 9-volt alkaline battery tethered to a battery converter clip. I know that will rapidly deplete the battery but all I need, as I said, is about 15 minutes for each open mic event. If it doesn't work then I will go to another route, maybe even trying to find an outlet on stage. I do know some of the open mic folks play an electric guitar or electric bass from time to time so they have to have found an outlet as they are not using battery-powered amps.

[kurth]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Why do you say the Sonicake has less tonal shaping abilities than the BD121? And when I think of "tonal shaping" I think more of something like a modeling amp that will provide sounds not made by an acoustic guitar. I don't care for that ... I just would like it to sound as much like an acoustic guitar as possible. But perhaps your idea of tone shaping is not the same as mine.

As for any tariffs or customs fee, how much really would it add to a $25 purchase to a buyer who is not going to be a reseller and will use the device only for personal use?

...because it has no mid sweep nor a mic emulation. you're left with what it gives you, plus adjusting treble and bass. I hope it works for you. we all want it to sound as much like an acoustic guitar as possible. I always make sure it says " shipped from amazon". China seems like a long ways to go.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by kurth

I've been using an adi21 for a few months in my studio. Needless to say I struggled to get what I paid for out of it...barely. I've got my sights set now on a Palmer Acoustic Pocket Amp. I didn't see too much mojo out of the Behringer. The so-called mic modeling is imperceptible. Also the mid sweep is below my ability to perceive any change.

I’m not really a fan of the aDI21, as a brief scan of the forum will show, but if you can’t hear the effect of the swept midrange and the “tube effect” (not mic modelling as far as I understand) then your unit is faulty.

I still keep one handy for emergencies because it’s useful but even when it’s working properly it doesn’t sound good - I’d suggest yours isn’t.

[kurth]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

I’m not really a fan of the aDI21, as a brief scan of the forum will show, but if you can’t hear the effect of the swept midrange and the “tube effect” (not mic modelling as far as I understand) then your unit is faulty.

I still keep one handy for emergencies because it’s useful but even when it’s working properly it doesn’t sound good - I’d suggest yours isn’t.

o I can hear it...it just ain't that effective, nor pretty by itself. Maybe it doesn't marry well with yamaha srt's ? I'm using it, in fact both outputs. It can be made sort of pretty with Re-guitar. And I'm playing with the other out with some ir's. I would not like to be strapped with it forever as my only solution.

[PineMarten]

I'm wondering if more sophisticated and complex tone shaping might not always be what you need in a live preamp - something with just a couple of knobs that sounds "right" without much fiddling could be pretty appealing in a lot of contexts. For example, not many people would consider the RedEye preamps to be a downgrade from the Behringer.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by PineMarten

I'm wondering if more sophisticated and complex tone shaping might not always be what you need in a live preamp…

Often very much the case. In one instance we went from quite a fancy-pants box to a simple passive transformer based DI due to a dodgy power connection and the bass player’s ears perked up and said, “whatever you’ve done we’re keeping it”.

Happy to oblige.

[Ralph124C41]

I found a surprise in my mail box this morning. Remember that Sonicake Factory A acoustic I bought the evening of March 27. It was bought from a retailer in China and so I was expecting it to not arrive until the April 8 estimate.

Well it arrived today ... from some place in China called "New Jersey."

I haven't had time to even unbox it.

Btw, for the person who posted the query I did not have to pay any import taxes or anything ... maybe because it came from this "New Jersey" place.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I found a surprise in my mail box this morning. Remember that Sonicake Factory A acoustic I bought the evening of March 27. It was bought from a retailer in China and so I was expecting it to not arrive until the April 8 estimate.

Well it arrived today ... from some place in China called "New Jersey."

I haven't had time to even unbox it.

Btw, for the person who posted the query I did not have to pay any import taxes or anything ... maybe because it came from this "New Jersey" place.

That's great Ralph. Let us know your thoughts on it!