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  #16  
Old 10-16-2009, 01:57 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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This is interesting. While we have gone back and forth on 1 11/16" vs 1 3/4" nut width many times, I don't remember over the last 18 months that we have discussed this exact subject -- CAN WE REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE?

Obviously from the posts listed above, plenty of people can tell the difference. Bob Devellis' comments are particularly interesting to me.

For me, sometimes I can tell the difference and sometimes I can't. When I started posting here, I was sure that I preferred 1 11/16" nut width, but I would have also agreed that the easiest guitar to play that I owned at that time was my Taylor 514CE, which unknown to me at the time, has a 1 3/4" nut width.

I have guitars varying from 1 5/8" to 1 7/8" nut width. Once I get used to a guitar, I don't notice the difference in nut width one way or the other -- except for the 1 5/8"! The one I have the most trouble with is my Martin 000-28VS with a big fat "V" neck and a 1 13/16" nut width. But even that is not a big deal after about 5 minutes of playing.

My fingers are of medium length but slender width, so my fingers fit on a 1 11/16" nut width just fine. But I've found that I can live with all kinds of nut widths. On a guitar I've never played before, I can play a 1 11/16" nut width very accurately, but I'll mess up on a 1 3/4" for a few minutes, probably because I've spent a lot of years playing electric guitars and the most natural feel for me is 1 11/16".

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  #17  
Old 10-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devellis View Post
When I worked as a bank teller just after college, I could grab a roll of dimes and tell if it had too many, too few, or the tight number of dimes in it. A dime isn't very thick, relative to the overall length of a full roll, but anyone who's handled those rolls for a while can feel the difference instantly, without thinking about it. If you've got a good sized dictionary in your house, open it in the middle and run your finger over the location of the page numbers. On many dictionaries, you'll feel a distinct bump, caused by the microscopic layers of ink occurring in the same location on page after page. The thickness of the ink layer, relative to the thickness of a page, is pretty small but its cumulative presence on every page is clearly discernible. Our hands are extremely sensitive thickness detectors.

I have a really nice 1979 Taylor that's in phenomenal shape. It's sounds and plays really well but rarely gets played. Why? Well, probably primarily because I find the dreadnought shape a bit off-putting. But also because of its 1 11/16" neck. I can play it, and can move from it to a larger neck or vice versa without too much re adjusting. But I just prefer the feel of a wider fingerboard. Even 1 23/32" feels better (although how much of that is nut width per se versus neck profile and other factors is hard to say).

If I had to, I could adapt to 1 11/16" but I just prefer a somewhat more generous fingerboard. When you're fretting a string, the proximity of your finger to the adjacent string can be pretty darn close. Even a whisper of extra room can make a difference in how cleanly the notes sound. Guitars and guitar playing involve fairly narrow tolerances in general. A little bit can mean a lot.
I have to say this : you are a very smart man .

I feel to some its not a big deal and to some a card stock in thickness makes a difference . I believe that a good guitarist can adapt to what ever fingerboard width, radius or scale length that is put before them.
I bought an OM because i was told I needed the wider fingerboard width for fingerstyle - but threw time i figured out i like the narrower Dread boards for fingerstyle -my philosophy is that the closer the strings are to one another the faster i can get to them - One idea is to have diferent fingerboard widths on your guitars -im betting it will make you a better guitarist and let you adapt quicker .
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2009, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrat View Post
...They asked, can .063" really make a difference across the fret board, given that the difference in space between strings (if divided equally) is less than .013" of an inch.
Hi Jack...
To me that's like suggesting the intonation on a given string is only .063 of a semi-tone flat and doesn't need to be corrected, and asking "...will it make that much of a difference?" It would to my ears!

I feel different string spacing on necks. It is not that I cannot adapt, I elect not to for my own instruments. In fact for me it would be a deal breaker if I found a guitar that sounded fabulous but had a nut narrower than 1 3/4'' and the saddle were narrower than 2 1/4''. I want to spend my time playing music not wrestling with a guitar neck...

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  #19  
Old 10-16-2009, 05:34 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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That 1/16" is actually a large enough difference to be a deal breaker for many guitarists. I prefer to think in terms of 1/64 increments, so the choices are really 1 11/16 - 1 45/64 - 1 23/32 - 1 47/64 - 1 3/4, and best for me and many of those I know well; 1 49/64, which I usually refer to as 1 3/4+. These smaller steps do not usually turn out to be deal breakers, and if you imagine I am being silly or obsessive, don't knock it if you haven't tried it. Schoenberg used to habitually order his guitars from me with 1 13/16, but is slowly seeing the light and currently favors 1 27/32!
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  #20  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:22 PM
vintageom vintageom is offline
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Yes, yes, yes, Eric Clapton can play anything with strings and a neck. I read the poster's thread question as what is more comfortable. For me for three reasons I prefer the 1 11/16 nut width and narrower fret boards. First, I thumb over the top on some patterns with a smaller left hand and want to stay clean on the high E string at the bottom as I do so. Second, I cover multiple strings on some chord patterns with one finger..easier when strings are closer.
Third, I feel that I can flat pick faster with shorter distances between strings. Physics.
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  #21  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:03 PM
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If you don't know any different and can't tell the difference yourself NOW, no, it won't make a bit of difference. You'll catch on and learn to prefer it I'm pretty sure. If you've played a 1.75 and move to a narrower width, you will always wish you had waited for another 1.75.

If you are a strummer and not a finger picker, it's all up to you. I don't see where that would matter as much.
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  #22  
Old 10-16-2009, 09:11 PM
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i was surprised - nay, shocked! - to discover last june that yes, that little bit of difference makes a huge difference to me. funny thing, but when i was first planning to buy a yamaha fg730s, people on this board warned me about the neck, and i thought "how much could such a little difference matter?" and went ahead with the yamaha. i ended up trading it for a seagull original s6 with great relief.
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2009, 01:26 AM
Idaho John Idaho John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patticake View Post
i was surprised - nay, shocked! - to discover last june that yes, that little bit of difference makes a huge difference to me. funny thing, but when i was first planning to buy a yamaha fg730s, people on this board warned me about the neck, and i thought "how much could such a little difference matter?" and went ahead with the yamaha. i ended up trading it for a seagull original s6 with great relief.
I went through something quite similiar. I had a guitar that I was comfortable with for strumming and single string runs but...when I started learning to fingerpick I just could not get my fingers to chord properly and ended up consistently dampening the strings (I don't know what other term to use - thud?). The nut was 1 11/16th. I decided to get another guitar to focus on fingerstyle and went into a local dealer who had a nice sunburst acoustic that I "just had to have," but...1 11/16th. Got it home and had the same problems. Hard way to learn.

After some dedicated playing time at several other dealers in my area, I finally found that 1 3/4 works just right (or right now) for me. 1 7/8 was too much and I could not move my thumb over the top and consistently make some of the chords that go with country blues and the old nut width wasn't working. So a process of elimination.

I have so much more to learn, but as with Patty, I have made some mistakes along the way to find what works. And that is what matters to me...that it works and I can play with some comfort. That perception of comfort makes practice seem easier...and more attractive.
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2009, 07:26 AM
jackstrat jackstrat is offline
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It seems that most of us prefer 1-3/4", yet many of the most popular guitars in the history of the craft (Martin D-18 and D-28, etc) have 1-11/16" nuts, and this is my quandry. I want one or the other (or both), but am concerned about the 1-11/16 nut. I have very large hands, and in the store, they seem to play fine, but...
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2009, 07:54 AM
jakepicks jakepicks is offline
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I have paws for hands,as some of you describe,too! And really do feel that 1/16 and so prefer the 1 3/4 nut measurement. I would like to add that at one time I had a 1968 Hummingbird which was supposedly ordered by John Sebastion...it had a 1 9/16 nut with what I would call a low profile shaped neck.When I picked it up to play,the feel was "giddy-up",but I can't and I smashed some chords.
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2009, 08:17 AM
TomHB TomHB is offline
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The difference is like night and day to me. Having just gotten a 1 3/4" nut OM recently (inexpensive Silver Creek), it's about all I play right now, but the 1 11/16" size is still a joy to play as well. However there's no mistaking which is which. Far more finger-picking room (or flat-picking room) and room to form chords on the 1 3/4". Also bending room. I really enjoy playing blues on the wider nut. Strumming the large nut size is still fine, though for stumming-only the smaller nut size is easier (of course). But when I try to finger pick on it now, it's feels more like I have to "pick at" and on top of the strings on the 1 11/16", rather than the sensation of "picking in" the strings, that the 1 3/4" nut feels like. The SC also has 2 5/16" string spacing at the saddle btw.

It's all good though.
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  #27  
Old 10-17-2009, 08:41 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrat View Post
It seems that most of us prefer 1-3/4"...
Actually, someone on this forum did a survey a while ago -- http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...ight=nut+width

52.5% preferred 1 3/4", 30% preferred 1 11/16".
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  #28  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:10 AM
ruger9 ruger9 is offline
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Again, people... NECK PROFILE (and radius for that matter.)

You can't really talk about so-called "direct" comparisons of 1 11/16" vs 1 3/4" nuts without including the neck profiles. It's a HUGE (probably the biggest) part of the equation.

So "guitar A had a 1 11/16" and guitar B had a 1 3/4" and I preferred guitar B"... doesn't really mean anything.
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  #29  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:27 AM
TomHB TomHB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
Again, people... NECK PROFILE (and radius for that matter.)

You can't really talk about so-called "direct" comparisons of 1 11/16" vs 1 3/4" nuts without including the neck profiles. It's a HUGE (probably the biggest) part of the equation.

So "guitar A had a 1 11/16" and guitar B had a 1 3/4" and I preferred guitar B"... doesn't really mean anything.

I have an old 1970s Korean Martin D-copy with a V neck and 1 11/16" neck, which is a pretty close neck profile comparison to my Silver Creek T-170 Martin OOO28-EC copy (and very similar, if not the same radius), and I can assure you there's a HUGE difference just from the nut width. It's amazing to me how much 1/16" at the nut, with an extra 1/8" string spacing at the saddle can make.

Maybe not everyone can feel the difference, of course, but I sure do.

Last edited by TomHB; 10-17-2009 at 09:43 AM.
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:31 AM
jackstrat jackstrat is offline
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Which begs the question, why doesn't Martin offer a 1-3/4" nut option (without paying custom made prices) on their flagship models, the -18 and -28?

jack
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