It's 2024 - I Can't Believe What They Want To Pay

[LAPlayer]

Okay - if this is in the wrong place, please let me know, and move it appropriately.

Like the title says, WHAT? I was contacted today by a winery that was inquiring what I charge for a 2-hour Friday night winery gig. I asked for some more information, where, what time, attire (do I need a tux?), size of venue so I have an idea of what equipment I need to bring, background or featured artist, corporate event or fund-raiser??? These begin my normal questions. She didn't get my name from the union or she would have known basics.

The person responded that she had seen me at a recent annual gala where I perform as their early mixer background and after dinner feature. I get a lot for those gigs. Then she told me they pay their solo performers $100 for 2 hours. They pay two or more $300.........Huh?. They have no PA or any equipment Now I'm not a prima donna and I play 3-4 hours a day for free (rehearsal and practice) but that's less than I made in 1976 at Hamburger Hamlet. No one could survive on that plus I'm not even sure the union would allow me to play for that.

I told her I couldn't possibly do it this week as I'm busy (true because I'm prepping to be back in L.A. for work Mon-Wed. but as a professional (luckily not needing the money) I was astounded at that 1970's rate. I guess I need to get out more.

[67goat]

Not sure where that happened to you, but in the Central Valley, I don't think business owners know that a music union exists.

[LAPlayer]

She saw me in Phoenix. Central Valley should be hiring out of AFM Local 12 Sacramento.

[Osage]

Originally Posted by LAPlayer

No one could survive on that plus I'm not even sure the union would allow me to play for that.

No one is surviving on that. It's a semi-pro gig. It'll get played by a hobbyist or weekend warrior type. Someone who enjoys playing and likes making a few extra bucks. I have a friend who plays lots of gigs like this, farmers markets, wineries etc... He has a full time non-musical job and plays the gigs for fun.

[LAPlayer]

I guess that's what happens when you get out of touch (me). I've had shocks like that like when contacted by a Denver firm that wanted me to score something for them and I gave them a quote. I followed up with them and, after the usual pleasantries, they said I was too expensive. I (naively as this was 20 years ago) said "That's what I get in L.A.".....after the pause....they said "This isn't L.A."..... I got it. This however, was more of a shock.

[martingitdave]

Part of the problem is that non professional musicians (certainly non union) will take gigs for that price. Lots of audience don’t know the difference. Some booking agents don’t seem to care.

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by Osage

No one is surviving on that. It's a semi-pro gig. It'll get played by a hobbyist or weekend warrior type. Someone who enjoys playing and likes making a few extra bucks. I have a friend who plays lots of gigs like this, farmers markets, wineries etc... He has a full time non-musical job and plays the gigs for fun.

You have just perfectly described me. Playing for "beer and gear" money.

[JonPR]

Yes, that's semi-pro gig money. Here in London UK, my band does regular pub gigs for £200 (around $250) and we're a 5-piece, so that's £40 ($50) each. For 2 separate one-hour sets.

For a functions gig - like you're describing - we would expect more, but would be OK with the equivalent of $100 (£80) each. It's on the low side, admittedly, but I doubt we'd turn it down. And that's providing all our own gear, btw, and with no roadies to pay. (But no need for tuxes or anything like that...)

However, for a solo gig, I would definitely expect more. After all, they are still getting 2 hours of entertainment. One solo performer is worth less than a whole band, but not 4 or 5 times less! I don't do solo gigs personally, but if I did I think I'd probably turn down £80 ($100). For a small, local, informal event, that would be acceptable, but where it's clear they could afford more (are 100s of people turning up? Are they paying entry?), I'd want more.

Needless to say, none of us are professional or unionised - except our drummer, who now plays half the time with a better paying functions outfit, and we get a dep. But when he's with us, he's OK with same cut as the rest of us.

FWIW, I was technically professional for 15 years before recent retirement, in that music was my main way of earning a living, but most of that came from teaching - part-time in schools and colleges, and privately. Gigs were just additional pocket money. Before that, I was semi-pro with a day job outside of music. Being able to make a living solely from music (and solely from performance at that) was cloud cuckoo land. I met (and played with) a lot of really excellent pro musicians over that time, but none of them made a living just from playing (live or in sessions); all of them either taught, or composed library music to make ends meet. And I'm sure some had part-time jobs outside music now and then.

[Skarsaune]

Even as a semi-pro, performance is just one part of the puzzle - I also teach school kids as part of our Junior Appalachian Musicians group, and repair/setup instruments.

I use a Venn diagram of fun / distance / money for gigs. It has to be the right combination.

[fantex]

Is the Union a California thing? I'm not aware of one in Texas... then again I'm not pro either. Just curious.

[Mbroady]

If they’re willing to pay 300 for 2 of more…….
An amount based on the number of players is not relevant IMHO

I would take the 100 if it were for a songwriter gig in a venue that promotes a listening environment. But that’s my happy space.

For back round music at least 2 bills.

[LAPlayer]

Originally Posted by fantex

Is the Union a California thing? I'm not aware of one in Texas... then again I'm not pro either. Just curious.

No. Musician's unions (which are also in Texas) have been around over 100 years and operate where music is made. AFM locals and regional affiliates operate regionally just like Actor's Equity, SAG-AFTRA ..... plumbers, electricians......

[Dave Hicks]

For instance:

https://members.afm.org/locals/info/number/58

[leew3]

As what I would guess you'd characterize as a 'semi pro' here in Central Ohio, the duo I play in charges what we've determined is the average 'going rate' in our area. We are retired guys who don't play for the money, but charge a fair rate so as not to mess up the local rate for those who are depending on the income from gigs.

Back in the old days I was an AFM member in good standing until I differed with them about paying dues for gigs I got myself. In the late 70's scale for a four set gig for the two of us was $65, so in that sense things have improved a bit

[PapaLobo]

In the Cafe' where I run sound (Atlanta) we pay solo acoustic artists $150 for a 2 hr show.
It's a small venue that seats about 40. For bands it's $450

Back in the late 70's when I was in bands it was $300 a night and they were typically 2 x 2hr sets .. considering inflation .. not much change