shoulder pain insight

[jbeecham]

My right shoulder has been bothering me lately. I know that's a common complaint on this forum. I have been playing a jumbo 12 string recently and that definitely aggravates my shoulder. The larger guitar forces me to awkwardly stretch my arm and lean my right shoulder forward.

I watched this video last night and I feel better just knowing I can do things to alleviate the problem and strengthen the shoulder joint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp0ONqc-sCI

Jerry

[buddyhu]

Some (many?) shoulder issues are rooted in restricted range of motion (related to age-related changes in muscles and connective tissues) and/or muscle weakness. A good physical therapist can help with both, and can specifically identify which muscles need attention, and how to target those muscles when stretching or strengthening.

I always encourage people to see a physician and to ask whether physical therapy might be helpful. And I’m always surprised when people post about the ways they choose to adapt to the onset and persistence of pain before they get help in identifying exactly what is causing the pain.

[lar]

I'm a believer in, and example of, how strength exercises can improve weakness/pain due to past injuries.

I had a shoulder that constantly clicked, and felt weak, due to serving tennis balls too hard (and probably with poor form). I had this for over a decade. Then I started going to the YMCA 3x a week, doing a lot of arm/shoulder strength training exercises. Along with stronger/larger shoulders, both the clicking and pain completely went away and has never returned.

When I practice guitar, I never play continuously for very long, taking frequent breaks to stretch and just give my body a short rest period. I think that helps. So does playing in a classical position for most of the time (some in classical position, some with guitar on right leg).

[SingingSparrow]

I concur - strength exercises, foam rolling, and, specifically for issues arising due to posture and too much sitting (very common), door stretches (be careful and go slow as it is possible to overstretch) --

(and yes, please see a good physical therapist. emphasis on good, where good means an individual who is willing to listen to you, learn your body and think independently, as opposed to a person who just advises exercise and stretching regimens by rote. in my, perhaps unfortunate, experience, most of them were woefully unhelpful. best of luck.)

Also, please do think about posture when you are playing the guitar (if not all the time - I will admit I do not think about it all the time.) And, figure out if how you sleep is hurting you. I hope it will help you to know that this is not a dead end and all of these issues can be addressed. Best of luck!

[mcmars]

I have shoulder issues and am bone on bone on right side, but I had avoided a replacement by going to PT a few years back where I did a ton of rehab with stretching and using elastic bands that I installed on a door and on my outside deck. After months of rehab and occasional using the elastic bands if I experienced pain, somehow I keep going with minimal pain now and have been able to row big 18 ft rafts on grand canyon trips every other year or so.

I do like smaller 12 fret guitars, but that is more choice than necessity.

I think it is a "use it of lose it" deal, but I have always had strong shoulders from years of rowing and kayaking and think I am on borrowed time.

I say go to doc and get a really good PT to set you up with good home program.

[Scott_19]

Originally Posted by SingingSparrow

I concur - strength exercises, foam rolling, and, specifically for issues arising due to posture and too much sitting (very common), door stretches (be careful and go slow as it is possible to overstretch) --

(and yes, please see a good physical therapist. emphasis on good, where good means an individual who is willing to listen to you, learn your body and think independently, as opposed to a person who just advises exercise and stretching regimens by rote. in my, perhaps unfortunate, experience, most of them are idiots. best of luck.)

Also, please do think about posture when you are playing the guitar (if not all the time - I will admit I do not think about it all the time.) And, figure out if how you sleep is hurting you. I hope it will help you to know that this is not a dead end and all of these issues can be addressed. Best of luck!

By all means a good PT should listen to you and identify your specific impairments, but the exercises they prescribe are targeted to improve your function. And there are only so many things we can perform that are feasible for most people

Maybe you decide that band resisted D2 flexion PNF would be good for a patient but they just don’t understand the exercise. Or maybe you want to do closed chain shoulder stabilization on a bosu but they’re overweight and can’t tolerate a plank or quadruped position

Most people get “rote exercises” because A) it’s what they can perform correctly and B) because they work. I really don’t care if your shoulder pain is cuff tendinopathy or bursitis or even labral in nature. You’re going to treat it the same

We have doctorate level degrees. We’re not idiots

[SingingSparrow]

Originally Posted by Scott_19

We have doctorate level degrees. We’re not idiots

As I said, perhaps just my unfortunate experience. Don't mean to offend you personally. I personally did not have any luck with physical therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists, body work therapists, and what have you. Going back to the gym, being slow, attentive to my body, and making sure I was foam rolling (and stretching lightly, warmed up) and doing my own research (Kelly Starrett's materials were very helpful) and adapting when necessary was the only thing that eventually helped me. I was in a lot of pain for a year and a half and had to stop farming during that time. I went to three PTs. I am used to strength training with heavy barbells and know how to correctly execute clean and jerks, deadlifts and other complicated movements. I know how to communicate with my body (which is pretty much what it is all about.) I was diligent with my prescribed exercises and stretches and paid attention to form. I had no relief and was often in more pain. All three of them seemed helplessly unhelpful.

At the end of the day, I could not rely on the PTs and other professionals that were available to me and had to be self-reliant. I went from not being able to hold a coffee cup for more than a few seconds to squatting heavy triples in six months once I decided to stop relying on others. I still have bum shoulders and trouble with my neck, as well as a bum ankle and calf, and have to be careful about a lot of stuff. Even now, things can take a bad turn if I am lax. I can't load 8 acres of hay into a trailer and then stack it all in the barn by myself as I quick as I once could anymore. But I do have my life back.

Although, I will say that I hardly think a doctorate level education has anything to do with the unwillingness to think for oneself. Which would be what I meant by that word. I find the quality of healthcare in America to be quite atrocious in general. I will stand by that experience. But I am genuinely sorry to have offended you.

I can remove the word idiot from my original post if it helps it be less offensive. Cheers

[TennesseeWalker]

Shoulder pain is a little different for all individuals, but some common issues issues affect many as they age.
The shoulder joint is a very complicated mechanism, diagnosis and treatment should be done by a doctor or PT.

Many tears and inflammations come from the Coracohumeral ligaments but the pic below is just of the basic ligaments,
pain could be from inflammation in the bursa, the muscles themselves or ??? from an injury, poor circulation or just aging.

Each guitarist has their own body and needs, if one can, best to consult a pro for ongoing pain

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jbeecham

My right shoulder has been bothering me lately. I know that's a common complaint on this forum. I have been playing a jumbo 12 string recently and that definitely aggravates my shoulder. The larger guitar forces me to awkwardly stretch my arm and lean my right shoulder forward.

I watched this video last night and I feel better just knowing I can do things to alleviate the problem and strengthen the shoulder joint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp0ONqc-sCI

Jerry

Hi Jerry

I taught for 40 years, and especially older players (mid-50s to mid-60s) started having shoulder pain when they played (not ONLY when they played).

Some were work or injury related, and some were due to age. I'd never suggest you don't see a doctor or therapist. They can help, but likely are just forestalling future issues.

I helped quite a few players adjust (so they didn't feel they needed to sell instruments) by changing posture, and/or use of lifts or straps (even when sitting).

None of them resorted to switching to left knee/footstool but many adopted a guitar lift (like the NeckUP I've used for 17 years). These allow one to elevate the neck and place the guitar out closer to the knee (mid-thigh or further).

This slides the guitar down in the lap relieving pressure from the shoulder, and bringing the fretting shoulder closer to the body (I realize we're discussing the strumming/picking shoulder).

The re-posturing solves several issues at once, one being the pressure relief on the strumming shoulder.

Hope this adds to the discussion.

[Br1ck]

I woke up a few days ago with a sore shoulder. Not typical for me. Reaching up an out was a problem. I went out in my garden and weeded a flour bed where I had to reach out to the back of the bed. It was uncomfortable. It loosened up and became less so. Then I plated guitar and mandolin all afternoon. Today my shoulder feels much better.