Tube amps- am I missing out?

[RussL30]

Long post alert.

I've been playing electric a lot more lately and have really been digging into some online lessons to get better at it. I have a 90s Tex-Mex Strat, Player series Telecaster and an older MIK Sheraton with SD Antiquities. I've been playing on a Vox VT15 modeling amp for the last 13 years.

I've really liked the tones on my Vox amp, and it is probably going to need replacing at some point as some things are starting to wear out a little bit and it's a cheap amp. It was a big improvement over the cheap crappy sounding Crate amp I started out with.

I'm a bedroom player with no aspirations of playing out or with a drummer. I can crank my amp every now and then but I'm scared of it getting too loud with an elderly neighbor on one side of my house and another young family on the other.

I know that even small tube amps can get really loud, but would it be worth getting a small tube amp like an AC10, Class 5 or Blues Jr or would it just be a waste not getting to crank those tubes? I play a good bit clean,but I spend a lot of time in that edge of break up tone to moderate gain. Every now and then I like to crank up some gain for some AC/DC, ZZ Top, Leslie West type rock.

So would a small tube amp be worth it or should I buy another modeling amp when mine goes out? Is there anything I'm missing by never playing a tube amp even at lower volume?

[Charlie Bernstein]

If you love you're modeling amp, you're not missing out.

I love tube amps. Their voices change as they warm up. How they sound cold is nothing like how they sound or feel after half an hour or so of playing. You can't get that with a modeling amp yet.

It's perfectly possible to turn your tube amp up and your guitar down. Some players even add a treble capacitor to their volume pots to maintain the tone of the volume rolled all the way up. One of my Strats has that.

Also, keep in mind that 6V6 tubes have more clean headroom, EL84s have earlier breakup. If you're just looking at those twenty-watt amps you mentioned,* that's a consideration.

But the best option might be getting a five-watt amp.

There are a lot around these days. They're made for bedroom players like you. Fender, Supro, Dr. Z, many more. So there's no need to get a twenty-watt stage amp when a low-watt bedroom amp will do.

-----------

*For example, you mentioned Fender's Blues Junior. If you're still leaning toward a twenty-watt amp, a Fender Pro Junior with an alnico speaker is a better buy. The Fat switch on the Blues Junior sounds terrible.

[Bob Womack]

We are just now entering a period when tube amp makers are getting a handle on making tube amps sound good at low volume levels. It simply wasn't possible until the last few years. You could throw on an attenuator but most of them diminish the sound of your amp as you reduce the volume blow half. Even five watts will rip your face off in a small room if you crank the amp until it sounds good.

I don't look at this as a binary choice, but I am a dinosaur, an amp lover, a vintage lover, and a new tech lover all rolled into one. I've got some amps and I've got a modeler. I use both, but the modeler gets far more play time and plays far more studio sessions than the amps. Why? I've put in the hours creating my own presets on the modeler (Helix) that cover the majority of the sounds I am asked to provide in sessions. I've been in modeling for twenty years at this point and I'm a recording engineer so the techology fits snugly for me.

What do I have my eye on right now? I'm all set for modelers but I'm eyeing a new amp. I'm always on the lookout for an amp that can sound good at low levels and I think I've found one in the Marshall Origin 20. They've come up with a power scaling technology called "Power Stem" that is really kind of cool. We'll see: I'm not an impulse buyer.


A bunch of amps and the Helix down front.

Bob

[printer2]

Two things determine the loudness, the wattage and the efficiency of the speaker. Both the Blues and Pro are around 15 watts and have fairly efficient speakers, they will be loud at home if cranked. The AC-10, about 10W has a lower output speaker and may be more home friendly. The 5 watt amps (Class 5, Vibro Champ...) are roughly 5W and again, a less efficient speaker. Going from 5W to 10W increases the loudness by 3 dB, increasing from 10W to 20W adds another 3 dB. Say the higher output speakers are 6 dB more efficient than the "home" speakers, you could be looking at a 10 dB difference between a 5W Champ and a Princeton Reverb.

Also tube amps are not created equal. The Class 5, Champ, they are single ended (SE) amps. This means that they only have one output tube as compared to the AC-10, Blues Jr. which have two tubes in push-pull (P-P). When overdriven a SE will sound different than a P-P amp. Best to go audition different amps to see what pleases your ears.

[Big Band Guitar]

I am a retired electronics technician (39+) years.

Tubes are a waste of money. Any perceived difference in sound is imaginary.

I switched from a 68 fender Deluxe to a LoudBox Mini. Lighter, louder, cleaner, and a whole lot less money.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by RussL30

Long post alert.

I've been playing electric a lot more lately and have really been digging into some online lessons to get better at it. I have a 90s Tex-Mex Strat, Player series Telecaster and an older MIK Sheraton with SD Antiquities. I've been playing on a Vox VT15 modeling amp for the last 13 years.

I've really liked the tones on my Vox amp, and it is probably going to need replacing at some point as some things are starting to wear out a little bit and it's a cheap amp. It was a big improvement over the cheap crappy sounding Crate amp I started out with.

I'm a bedroom player with no aspirations of playing out or with a drummer. I can crank my amp every now and then but I'm scared of it getting too loud with an elderly neighbor on one side of my house and another young family on the other.

I know that even small tube amps can get really loud, but would it be worth getting a small tube amp like an AC10, Class 5 or Blues Jr or would it just be a waste not getting to crank those tubes? I play a good bit clean,but I spend a lot of time in that edge of break up tone to moderate gain. Every now and then I like to crank up some gain for some AC/DC, ZZ Top, Leslie West type rock.

So would a small tube amp be worth it or should I buy another modeling amp when mine goes out? Is there anything I'm missing by never playing a tube amp even at lower volume?

Delay gratification and try lots of stuff. Listen to some classics. The US and British tube types color the sound. Know what a few classics like a Princeton Reverb, Vox or Marshall, and Fender tweed sound like.

I've for sure found newer era practice amps like Yamaha THR line and Spark to be very satisfying compared to earlier solid state practice amps. There is a sort of perfection and imperfection all at once a tube amp can have.

Not all the tube amps I've had can have their magic at lower volumes. Pedals can get you dirt at lower volumes. Tune into how important reverb is. A whole lot of lower cost low watt tube amps don't have it built in.

Really nice and versatile tube amps can get expensive too but multiple channels, watt switching, or attenuator can make a difference in how they satisfy you.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

We are just now entering a period when tube amp makers are getting a handle on making tube amps sound good at low volume levels. It simply wasn't possible until the last few years. . . .

Hm. I've never found that tube amps sound bad dialed low. I've had a seventies Twin Reverb, a nineties tweed Pro Junior, a Peavey Delta Blues, a sixties Ampeg Mercury 115, and now a sixties Bassman head and 210 cabinet.

They've all sounded great dialed low. Sure, it's fun to crank them up past breakup, but all of them have had gorgeous clean headroom, too.

I say the big advance has been in the variety and quality of overdrive pedals. Two or three different types of pedals will you dial in a rainbow of tones without having to ruin your eardrums or get evicted.

These are the good old days!

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

I am a retired electronics technician (39+) years.

Tubes are a waste of money. Any perceived difference in sound is imaginary.

I switched from a 68 fender Deluxe to a LoudBox Mini. Lighter, louder, cleaner, and a whole lot less money.

All amps are not created equal. My Loudbox Mini is only good as a monitor. I'll never point it at an audience again.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

I am a retired electronics technician (39+) years.

Tubes are a waste of money. Any perceived difference in sound is imaginary.

I switched from a 68 fender Deluxe to a LoudBox Mini. Lighter, louder, cleaner, and a whole lot less money.

Different strokes! My Loudbox Mini doesn't do a thing for me.

But you're right, transistors can cut the mustard. Roland's Blues Cube embodies the solid-state guitar amp ideal.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Delay gratification and try lots of stuff. . . .

Bottle that!

[tdrake]

I've had lots of small tube amps, including a handful of wonderful vintage Fender Silverface Champs, Princetons, Deluxes, and now just have a lil Fender Pro Jr. I inherited.

At home I've never been able to play with any of them at "breakup" volume.

The Pro breaks up in a nice bad--s way when playing with a loud drummer, but those are volumes I try to avoid these days.

So, I get my overdrive from pedals or from running my lil Vox Pathfinder a bit dirty in stereo with the clean Pro Jr.

...which is to say the tubes in the Pro Jr. probably don't do nuthin' at all.

[jonfields45]

I guess most of you have seen my Princeton Reverb build thread. I've been using it daily since I finished de(hum)bug. My current performing solution is a Spark Go direct to the PA with no pedals.

With a Tube Screamer, that Princeton can do anything I want at any volume (limited by its 12-15 watts).

However the Spark Go is only a pound and I'm satisfied with what it can do too.

You really can't go too far wrong in either camp, tubes or modeling, and I like having both.

[6L6]

The first time I heard a ZT Lunchbox Reverb amp was in a noisy bar. I wondered where that great sound was coming from. The band members on stage had normal amps but the lead guitar player appeared to be playing with no amp at all!

I investigated further and soon saw this tiny amp (weighs under 10lbs). The guitarist told me it's all he needs for any of the venues they play!

SO... I bought one and once playing it, I sold my beloved '72 Fender SFDR. People just can't believe how great this little amp sounds and yet can play a noisy bar atmosphere if called upon to do so.

Built in California. Bulletproof construction (steel cabinet), and, I believe under $500 new.

Get one of these and you'll never look back.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by RussL30

...I have a 90s Tex-Mex Strat, Player Series Telecaster, and an older MIK Sheraton with SD Antiquities. I've been playing on a Vox VT15 modeling amp for the last 13 years.

I've really liked the tones on my Vox amp, and it is probably going to need replacing at some point as some things are starting to wear out a little bit and it's a cheap amp....

I know that even small tube amps can get really loud, but would it be worth getting a small tube amp like an AC10, Class 5 or Blues Jr., or would it just be a waste not getting to crank those tubes? I play a good bit clean, but I spend a lot of time in that edge of breakup tone to moderate gain. Every now and then I like to crank up some gain for some AC/DC, ZZ Top, Leslie West-type rock...

So would a small tube amp be worth it or should I buy another modeling amp when mine goes out? Is there anything I'm missing by never playing a tube amp even at lower volume?

My thoughts:

• Go to your friendly local big-box store with your Vox VT15 and one of your guitars;
• Plug into a Vox AC10 and do a side-by-side comparison with the Vox AC setting on your modeler, both clean and overdrive, at bedroom levels (use the gain/volume controls on the AC10 to achieve the tone/volume you need);
• Report back to us and tell us which one you like better...

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I guess most of you have seen my Princeton Reverb build thread. I've been using it daily since I finished de(hum)bug. My current performing solution is a Spark Go direct to the PA with no pedals.

With a Tube Screamer, that Princeton can do anything I want at any volume (limited by its 12-15 watts).

However the Spark Go is only a pound and I'm satisfied with what it can do too.

You really can't go too far wrong in either camp, tubes or modeling, and I like having both.

Yeah. I have a Quilter Micro-Block that sounds fine. Between that and my old Bassman, my amp wants are met.