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  #1  
Old 11-07-2017, 10:24 PM
RandyOK RandyOK is offline
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Default Rainsong CO-WS1000 vs CH-WS1000

Which tone do you prefer between the CO-WS1000 14 fret and the CH-WS1000 12 fret?
Both are unidirectional tops... Any noticeable difference between the two in tone, volume, sustain, responsiveness etc?
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2017, 10:43 PM
bry bry is offline
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Default Rainsong CO-WS1000 vs CH-WS1000

I compare the co series vs ch series to solid wood back and sides vs laminate back and sides. The Co being the solid. The co has more depth of sound and more punch , both are equal as far a playing delicately. I think the co has more head room more sustain. Both are equally responsive. I think the co has better note separation while the ch tends to sound more on the muddy side. I owned a CO-WS and wish I never sold it. I owned a CH-OM and I don't miss it at all. The CO series is well worth the extra money. The next guitar I buy will be a CO-OM 12 fret. Unless blackbird comes out with something amazing at namm 2018.

You can order any Rainsong guitar as a 12 fret
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:19 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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...while the ch tends to sound more on the muddy side.
Hmmm, that would not be my assessment of the Shorty at all. Maybe in comparison to other CF makes and models, but not in comparison to any wood acoustic I've ever played (and I've played a lot). In fact, the clarity of the Shorty is one of the reasons I love mine so much.

I do admit I'm ignorant on how the full carbon OM sounds since I've not played one, but part of the appeal of the Shorty was the mellower voicing and the price (which had dropped even more for those entering late into the market). I did play a classic Jumbo RS though with the N1 neck, and even though it sounded glorious, it didn't grab me like the tone of the Shorty.

Could it be that you miss the tone of the sheer size of the WS more than the smaller OM size even before construction is concerned? Not trying to assume anything, just an observation- but you certainly would know better than me.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:44 PM
pandaroo pandaroo is offline
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Originally Posted by bry View Post
I compare the co series vs ch series to solid wood back and sides vs laminate back and sides. The Co being the solid. The co has more depth of sound and more punch , both are equal as far a playing delicately. I think the co has more head room more sustain. Both are equally responsive. I think the co has better note separation while the ch tends to sound more on the muddy side. I owned a CO-WS and wish I never sold it. I owned a CH-OM and I don't miss it at all. The CO series is well worth the extra money. The next guitar I buy will be a CO-OM 12 fret. Unless blackbird comes out with something amazing at namm 2018.

You can order any Rainsong guitar as a 12 fret
Exactly my observation as well comparing a CO-WS and my CH-WS

Last edited by pandaroo; 11-08-2017 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:41 AM
bry bry is offline
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Default Rainsong CO-WS1000 vs CH-WS1000

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Originally Posted by steelvibe View Post
Hmmm, that would not be my assessment of the Shorty at all. Maybe in comparison to other CF makes and models, but not in comparison to any wood acoustic I've ever played (and I've played a lot). In fact, the clarity of the Shorty is one of the reasons I love mine so much.



I do admit I'm ignorant on how the full carbon OM sounds since I've not played one, but part of the appeal of the Shorty was the mellower voicing and the price (which had dropped even more for those entering late into the market). I did play a classic Jumbo RS though with the N1 neck, and even though it sounded glorious, it didn't grab me like the tone of the Shorty.



Could it be that you miss the tone of the sheer size of the WS more than the smaller OM size even before construction is concerned? Not trying to assume anything, just an observation- but you certainly would know better than me.


I thought the CH-WS sounded muddy. I thought the CH-OM had much better note separation and clarity Vs the CH-WS. I still prefer the CO series.

Randy, check out the CO-WS1005NS. I like those too.

Last edited by bry; 11-08-2017 at 07:57 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:20 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by RandyOK View Post
Which tone do you prefer between the CO-WS1000 14 fret and the CH-WS1000 12 fret?
Both are unidirectional tops... Any noticeable difference between the two in tone, volume, sustain, responsiveness etc?
Hi Randy,

As stated in my email, the hybrid back and sides provide a mellower tone, while the all carbon construction will give you a bit more power. The difference between short and long scale, and the bridge placement of the 12-fret NS models add to this even more.

More to it than that of course, but that's about it in a nutshell.

Rainsong offers so many options now that it can get confusing, but certainly no more confusing than say choosing the right Taylor. For instance, if you prefer more mid range, go with all Hybrid, if you want more clarity and volume, stick with the standard weave CF. Add a 12-Fret NS short scale neck and you will mellow the tone of any model. As with Taylor, the signature Rainsong voice is there in all the guitars, but the options let you tweak the tone quite a bit.

As for preference between the two, for me it's like choosing between guitars featuring different tone woods, and different body sizes. If forced to choose one wood guitar, a full size Rosewood/Cedar like my Taylor 714ce or Lowden 025 would work for most of what I do, so I would probably choose the CO-WS1000N2, which is probably the most versatile CF acoustic you can buy today.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:05 AM
RandyOK RandyOK is offline
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Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
Hi Randy,

As stated in my email, the hybrid back and sides provide a mellower tone, while the all carbon construction will give you a bit more power. The difference between short and long scale, and the bridge placement of the 12-fret NS models add to this even more.

More to it than that of course, but that's about it in a nutshell.

Rainsong offers so many options now that it can get confusing, but certainly no more confusing than say choosing the right Taylor. For instance, if you prefer more mid range, go with all Hybrid, if you want more clarity and volume, stick with the standard weave CF. Add a 12-Fret NS short scale neck and you will mellow the tone of any model. As with Taylor, the signature Rainsong voice is there in all the guitars, but the options let you tweak the tone quite a bit.

As for preference between the two, for me it's like choosing between guitars featuring different tone woods, and different body sizes. If forced to choose one wood guitar, a full size Rosewood/Cedar like my Taylor 714ce or Lowden 025 would work for most of what I do, so I would probably choose the CO-WS1000N2, which is probably the most versatile CF acoustic you can buy today.
Thanks Ted,
I wrote this post before I saw your email. It looking more and more like the CO-WS is the way to go for me. As sexy as the Emerald X20 is... (Love the look of the Red Artisan) , from what I've heard in the videos on YouTube the CO-WS sounds better to my ears. With this post, I was trying to determine if there was more than just the cosmetics and 12 fret vs 14 fret difference between the CH and CO. And according to most folks yes, there is a tone and volume difference. I didn't want to spend the $1,000 difference for the CO if there wasn't a good reason to. But now it seems like it is worth it. Thanks so much for your input!
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:38 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Thanks Ted,
I wrote this post before I saw your email. It looking more and more like the CO-WS is the way to go for me. As sexy as the Emerald X20 is... (Love the look of the Red Artisan) , from what I've heard in the videos on YouTube the CO-WS sounds better to my ears. With this post, I was trying to determine if there was more than just the cosmetics and 12 fret vs 14 fret difference between the CH and CO. And according to most folks yes, there is a tone and volume difference. I didn't want to spend the $1,000 difference for the CO if there wasn't a good reason to. But now it seems like it is worth it. Thanks so much for your input!
No worries, Randy, the more opinions the better. If you do end up with the CO-WS, you will not regret it. FYI, it was trying the then new CO-WS1000N2 at NAMM that convinced me to become a Rainsong dealer, and I have not regretted that decision.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:20 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Full-carbon guitar for me!
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:33 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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I guess I'm the odd man out here, I played them all, a lot. In the WS line up, I preferred the H series with a 12 fret neck. A touch warmer than the others. It's good to be able to have that many models to choose from, and I think that playing style may enter into it a lot too. I don't like bright forward sounding guitars.

Bottom line is that you should play them all before you buy Randy. How far is Colorado Springs and Tejon Street Music from you? Big Rainsong dealer.

As far as the RS WS sounding better than the X20......ehhhhh to my ears, nope. I know I know...personal taste. Good luck.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:23 PM
RandyOK RandyOK is offline
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I guess I'm the odd man out here, I played them all, a lot. In the WS line up, I preferred the H series with a 12 fret neck. A touch warmer than the others. It's good to be able to have that many models to choose from, and I think that playing style may enter into it a lot too. I don't like bright forward sounding guitars.

Bottom line is that you should play them all before you buy Randy. How far is Colorado Springs and Tejon Street Music from you? Big Rainsong dealer.

As far as the RS WS sounding better than the X20......ehhhhh to my ears, nope. I know I know...personal taste. Good luck.
Ha! Tejon Street is about a 9-10 hour drive.

You are right I. Should try them all first. I wish I could get my hands on everything side by side. That would be awesome.
A road trip to Texas is a little easier 3-4 hours maybe.
As far as the X20 goes ... it has a certain quality of sound that I dont care for. How do I describe it? Plastic sounding highs? Nasally? Brittle highs? I am not sure that I am putting the right description of what I am hearing but I dont hear that same quality in the Rainsong or CA or Journey CF guitars. Which makes me sad honestly... I LOVE the look of the X20! I REALLY wanted to love it. But I haven't been won over by the videos. Great players playing them, lovely tunes too, but that plasticy quality that I hear in the videos just put me off. I know a CF guitar will never sound exactly like a good wood guitar, but some are closer than others I suppose. I wish I could get my hands on an X20 to either confirm what I am hearing or lay those perceptions to rest. Some have suggested just buying one and returning it if it doesn't suit me... But shipping to Ireland can't be cheap ha! If I were more on the fence about it, I might have considered that. The Rainsongs I can take a day and drive to Texas to try out a few.
Do you have any sound clips of the X20 played fingerstyle?
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:00 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Randy, I was messing around this evening, and made my first multi-track recording with a Zoom H4nPro. The X20 is the main guitar in that post (see the latest post on the "Sophie's Choice" thread. Listen to it with a decent set of headphones - nothing plastic or boxy about it.

You may want to define "a good wood guitar"... a Yamaha? A Martin? A Taylor? Which model? Maybe a Froggy Bottom? There is an endless selection of "good wood guitars," and none of my carbon fiber guitars sound like those I mentioned. Well, I have compared my X20 very favorably to my Taylor 814ce... both very nice guitars. But, they don't sound the same. Just like any two nice wood guitars won't.

I am with you that buying ANY guitar with the idea that you'll just send it back if it doesn't make you happy isn't a good way to go about it. I don't want to suggest to you that any carbon fiber guitar is going to please your ears. I have gone into my on-line guitar purchases with the idea that I will be happy with the sound. Most have needed a bit of tweaking to please my fingers (the X20 and the 814 are the exceptions - delightful right out of the box), but I haven't been disappointed with the sound of any of them. Of course, I didn't expect any of the carbon fiber guitars to sound like wood... they each sound like a great carbon fiber guitar.

I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself to pick "the one" from YouTube videos. All the carbon fiber guitars you are considering have been owned and enjoyed by folks on this forum. They are proven commodities. Asking others to compare "this one to that one" would be like having others pick out a car for you. The right one has to stir you. With the amount of angst you are projecting, I don't think you're ready to buy... you don't want any "what if" nagging doubts.

Good luck with the search.

Jim
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:45 PM
RandyOK RandyOK is offline
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Randy, I was messing around this evening, and made my first multi-track recording with a Zoom H4nPro. The X20 is the main guitar in that post (see the latest post on the "Sophie's Choice" thread. Listen to it with a decent set of headphones - nothing plastic or boxy about it.

You may want to define "a good wood guitar"... a Yamaha? A Martin? A Taylor? Which model? Maybe a Froggy Bottom? There is an endless selection of "good wood guitars," and none of my carbon fiber guitars sound like those I mentioned. Well, I have compared my X20 very favorably to my Taylor 814ce... both very nice guitars. But, they don't sound the same. Just like any two nice wood guitars won't.

I am with you that buying ANY guitar with the idea that you'll just send it back if it doesn't make you happy isn't a good way to go about it. I don't want to suggest to you that any carbon fiber guitar is going to please your ears. I have gone into my on-line guitar purchases with the idea that I will be happy with the sound. Most have needed a bit of tweaking to please my fingers (the X20 and the 814 are the exceptions - delightful right out of the box), but I haven't been disappointed with the sound of any of them. Of course, I didn't expect any of the carbon fiber guitars to sound like wood... they each sound like a great carbon fiber guitar.

I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself to pick "the one" from YouTube videos. All the carbon fiber guitars you are considering have been owned and enjoyed by folks on this forum. They are proven commodities. Asking others to compare "this one to that one" would be like having others pick out a car for you. The right one has to stir you. With the amount of angst you are projecting, I don't think you're ready to buy... you don't want any "what if" nagging doubts.

Good luck with the search.

Jim
Yep!
Agreed.
I guess the “angst” for me, is this purchase will more than likely be my last for a few reasons. So, yeah I guess I am putting a lot of pressure on myself to chose wisely the first time. I know there are some who change guitars like they change their underwear, but thats not me. Ive had my Takamine 12 string since I started playing at 15 and my Gretsch Country Gentleman since My Dad bought it for me at 16. Ive never sold a guitar... they become a part of my family.ha! So yeah I really want to make the right decision. More “hands on” research will be required. I have ordered my Larrivee OM-40R online sight unseen and that worked out great. For some reason I had a lot of faith in Jean Larrivee and his workmanship and I wasnt disappointed. But I did alot of research on that one as well. Just the painstaking agonizing I always do to make sure Ive done my due dilegence before I spend my hard earned money. I will check out that sound clip you mentioned. Thanks for letting me know about that!
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:11 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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A Gretsch Country Gentleman.... cool... don't see many of those.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:37 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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A Gretsch Country Gentleman.... cool... don't see many of those.
I was thinking the same....
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