Generally speaking, what effect does shortening the scale length have on a guitar?

[Prizen]

Hey all,

Just a general question, not necessarily specific to any guitar type. If I have a guitar let's say of 25.4" scale, and it is shortened to 24.9" - what effect does it have on tone?

I realise it will, for most people make the instrument easier to play due to the lesser string tenion, but in what way would it sound different, or would the difference be barely detectable?

Thanks!

[Steve DeRosa]

In addition to the shorter reaches and lower string tension, some players notice a "looser" response, less crisp (in a good way) with a shift into the midrange - in other words, your classic "Gibson J-45" tone. This of course will vary from player to player/instrument to instrument, so this is only my (very) general observation; BTW, speaking as a closet bass player the same holds true - a 34" instrument (P-Bass. J-Bass, etc.) will have a dramatically different tonal spectrum than a 30" (Gibson EB-0/EB-3, Guild Starfire, Hofner, etc.)...

[ukejon]

My custom Hatcher is 24.75" and it feels very comfortable in terms of string tension and overall playability with no loss of clarity. Indeed, being an uke player also being inspired by some of Tommy Emmanuel's comments I play with a capo on the second fret about 90% of the time on all my guitars and really like the tonal sweet spot that is found there--around a 22" to 22 1/2"scale! Larry Pattis on AGF is a short-scale fan, 24" I believe, and his Fay guitars ring like bells....just perfect.

[Doubleneck]

I have a 22.5 inch scale hand built and you hear what a shorter scale does. To me this guitar starts to approach the mellower sound of nylon strings? Not totally of course but it's very mellow.

[DenverSteve]

Slightly lower string tension Additionally, from my experience and guitars, tone change is barely noticeable - if at all. My two Martin OM/000 guitars are very similar and different scale. The differences between the two have far more to do with being two different guitars than the scale alone. They play the same as well.

[PTC Bernie]

I agree that sort scale will result in less string tension, but it seems that a lot of short scale players move up a step in string gauge to compensate.

Kind of a push.

[joelhunn]

Don't want to hijack this thread, but what string weight is preferred for a short scale?

[Larry Pattis]

Generally speaking, the physics dictates that if only the scale-length is changed, then a shorter scale will have less tension.

What that translates to on the instrument can mean a variety of things...for the given instrument and the player.

Here's a little something on a 24.00" scale guitar.




Light gauge wound strings, medium b & e (Elixir HD Lights).

Guitar by Simon Fay.

I'm pretty happy with the feel and sound.

[Organic Sounds Select Guitars]

Originally Posted by ukejon

My custom Hatcher is 24.75" and it feels very comfortable in terms of string tension and overall playability with no loss of clarity. Indeed, being an uke player also being inspired by some of Tommy Emmanuel's comments I play with a capo on the second fret about 90% of the time on all my guitars and really like the tonal sweet spot that is found there--around a 22" to 22 1/2"scale! Larry Pattis on AGF is a short-scale fan, 24" I believe, and his Fay guitars ring like bells....just perfect.

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Generally speaking, the physics dictates that if only the scale-length is changed, then a shorter scale will have less tension.

What that translates to on the instrument can mean a variety of things...for the given instrument and the player.

Here's a little something on a 24.00" scale guitar.

I also don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to know more about the effect of using a capo on the 2nd fret. Ukejon, do you then tune down a full step so that you're in standard tuning with the capo? Larry, I notice in your video that you also are using a capo at the 2nd fret. Is this strictly for the tone changes that it produces, or is there an ease of playing benefit?

By the way, Larry, you have a new fan. Beautiful playing, and I love the composition.

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

In addition to the shorter reaches and lower string tension, some players notice a "looser" response, less crisp (in a good way) with a shift into the midrange - in other words, your classic "Gibson J-45" tone. This of course will vary from player to player/instrument to instrument, so this is only my (very) general observation; BTW, speaking as a closet bass player the same holds true - a 34" instrument (P-Bass. J-Bass, etc.) will have a dramatically different tonal spectrum than a 30" (Gibson EB-0/EB-3, Guild Starfire, Hofner, etc.)...

When you mention less crisp, do you mean it tends to lean towards the bass rather than the high side ?

Dan

[Dwight]

Originally Posted by LWSog

By the way, Larry, you have a new fan. Beautiful playing, and I love the composition.

yes me too!

[AsianGuy]

Originally Posted by ukejon

My custom Hatcher is 24.75" and it feels very comfortable in terms of string tension and overall playability with no loss of clarity. Indeed, being an uke player also being inspired by some of Tommy Emmanuel's comments I play with a capo on the second fret about 90% of the time on all my guitars and really like the tonal sweet spot that is found there--around a 22" to 22 1/2"scale! Larry Pattis on AGF is a short-scale fan, 24" I believe, and his Fay guitars ring like bells....just perfect.

Do you also tune down with the capo on? I've been doing that lately (on a 25.4 scale length) and sort of like the results, however I feel like other guitar purist would frown on that

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by LWSog

I also don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to know more about the effect of using a capo on the 2nd fret. Ukejon, do you then tune down a full step so that you're in standard tuning with the capo? Larry, I notice in your video that you also are using a capo at the 2nd fret. Is this strictly for the tone changes that it produces, or is there an ease of playing benefit?

By the way, Larry, you have a new fan. Beautiful playing, and I love the composition.

From one Larry to another, thanks...!

I am using a partial-capo in the video I included here (guitar is in standard tuning)...I mostly tune my 24" scale guitars to DADGAD these days...

[woodbox]

Hey Prizen,
good question.

I have concluded that the difference in "tone" by simply changing the scale length is minimal, to my ears anyway.
I wrote about this in a similar thread recently.

I happen to have two very similar Martins--
OM-18 with 25.4 scale length
000-18 with 24.9.

Very similar guitars with two variations:
--scale length
--cutaway on the OM
(and they were built a few years apart so the OM has been played more)

Both are Golden Era (GE) models with Honduran Mahogany back and side wood,
Adirondack Spruce top, GE bracing.

I have tried a number of comparison tests, both as player and listener, with fresh strings same brand and gauge.
I just cannot discern a significant difference in tone.

The two guitars sound slightly different, of course, but they are remarkably similar, indicating (to me anyway) that the effect of scale length (and cutaway) on the tone is slight.

Granted this is purely subjective, is one guys opinion based on my limited experience, but it's what I've concluded.

[llew]

Beautiful song Larry! As always...great playing. Thanks for sharing!