So sad, open mics in my small town shut down by ASCAP licensing

[rct]

Originally Posted by riorider

I haven't managed to read all the responses, but what about this option: a venue "rents" space to performers - either comedians, artists, or musicians. Doesn't control what they do. They handle their own advertising. Patrons would know only that the venue has interesting artisans frequently.

If I wanted to do that I'd open a bar for my band to play at.

rct

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by Rumblefish

Nobody owes you a stage to perform on. It is not a right. You didn't book a gig. You didn't earn one. You don't own the venue and do all that is involved in keeping the place running. This attitude of "open stages are important to my musical development I might have quit playing if not for them" is a cop out.



If not playing an open mic is going to be what stands between you and your musical development, start your own. Rent a performance space and negotiate the licensing fees up front. Come up with a model cover those expenses. Pay to play, fundraising. patron of the arts, a club with membership dues?



Talk to the venue owner and offer to pay all the fees out of your own pocket. You'll be a local hero. Maybe you can write it off



Find someone with a huge house and just have a big jam twice a month.



If open mics are disappearing and it's that important to the community there should be a void to be filled.



Music is a powerful force and will seek it's own level. Pitting musician against musician surely isn't the answer.

There is a lot of truth in this post from Rumblefish.

It astounds me to discover how much opinion here is being put forth as the basis of justification for ignoring regulations.

I suspect there is a similar mindset as with drivers who perform the "rolling stop " because unlike other drivers they "know" they are capable of making a safe judgement about the advisability of continuing without a full stop to look in all directions before proceeding.


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[riorider]

Originally Posted by amyFB

It astounds me to discover how much opinion here is being put forth as the basis of justification for ignoring regulations.

Amy, no problem (from me) abiding by regulations. The practices I deplore are the strong arm, big legal threat to shut down venues REGARDLESS of the music being played. As someone stated, they cannot even provide original or public domain music without threat of very expensive legal action.

There should be no reason I cannot perform my own or public domain material without the ASCAP / BMI goons showing up to threaten a venue owner.

rio

[rct]

Originally Posted by riorider

Amy, no problem (from me) abiding by regulations. The practices I deplore are the strong arm, big legal threat to shut down venues REGARDLESS of the music being played. As someone stated, they cannot even provide original or public domain music without threat of very expensive legal action.

There should be no reason I cannot perform my own or public domain material without the ASCAP / BMI goons showing up to threaten a venue owner.

rio

You can, provided the venue does not make money on the enjoyment of your music. And if you have original music that isn't copyrighted and those rights managed by one of the performance rights organizations, you might want to rethink your understandably righteous indignation. They get you paid too, among other things.

rct

[CodeBlueEMT]

ASCAP wanted payment from the Girl Scouts for singing around the campfire.
I kid you not.

[Ditch]

I can see it someone is playing to say a few hundred people and it's a real concert then yes the artist should get something for there song. However I can't see charging folks playing in a coffee house to seven people. Just pure greed. How many times do they want to be paid for the same song. I'll bet as these performer's were coming up they played a lot of covers and never offered any payments.

[guitargoat]

I haven't read through all these posts. The vitriol is too much sometimes. As a restaurateur I will be sending out letters to all the artists I have promoted by playing their music all these years. I will be waiting for payment.

*Read some posts and this discussion is laughable.
It would be tough to prove "damages" from the small coffee shop that played a few cover songs.

Do some of you really want to sue Grandma over a 12 cent royalty check? She made the neighborhood cookies for all those years.

Are Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger on AGF? They probably have a legitimate gripe. Not so sure about the rest of them.

[Seby]

Originally Posted by CodeBlueEMT

ASCAP wanted payment from the Girl Scouts for singing around the campfire.
I kid you not.

And they would have got away with it too, if only it were not for those dastardly kids!

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by guitargoat

I haven't read through all these posts. The vitriol is too much sometimes. As a restaurateur I will be sending out letters to all the artists I have promoted by playing their music all these years. I will be waiting for payment.

*Read some posts and this discussion is laughable.
It would be tough to prove "damages" from the small coffee shop that played a few cover songs.

Do some of you really want to sue Grandma over a 12 cent royalty check? She made the neighborhood cookies for all those years.

Are Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger on AGF? They probably have a legitimate gripe. Not so sure about the rest of them.

The damages are statutory. No need to prove them up to the amount set forth in the federal statute.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by riorider

Amy, no problem (from me) abiding by regulations. The practices I deplore are the strong arm, big legal threat to shut down venues REGARDLESS of the music being played. As someone stated, they cannot even provide original or public domain music without threat of very expensive legal action.

There should be no reason I cannot perform my own or public domain material without the ASCAP / BMI goons showing up to threaten a venue owner.

rio

I'm not sure which venues you're talking about, but there are certain festivals that require the artists to play either original or music in the public domain for the very reason of not being required to pay royalty fees to ASCAP or BMI.

One specific example is Kentucky Music Week. They've been doing this for years and not a single letter was sent to them as a result. Can you provide us with some specific examples of venues that abide by the regulations but, as you put it, still have the 'ASCAP / BMI goons' showing up to threaten them, even after the fact? If a venue abides by the rules, then there is no reason to fear legal action.

[Irish Pennant]

This has been an interesting read. 20 pages long, wow.

[Maryc-k]

The collectors from ASCAP and BMI are collection agents who get a percentage of what they collect. At times it's like a shakedown. Venues need to know their rights. Do the due diligence and find out exactly what the fees are.

A few hundred dollars a year seems like a lot, but if you charge a cover to participate it spreads the cost across.

I'd like to know how the monies are getting trickled down to artist members. Has anyone gotten a check?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

Has anyone gotten a check?

Every quarter since the beginning of 2010.

[rct]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

The collectors from ASCAP and BMI are collection agents who get a percentage of what they collect. At times it's like a shakedown. Venues need to know their rights. Do the due diligence and find out exactly what the fees are.

A few hundred dollars a year seems like a lot, but if you charge a cover to participate it spreads the cost across.

I'd like to know how the monies are getting trickled down to artist members. Has anyone gotten a check?

Amazingly enough, yes, as have quite a few people in here who have all patiently tried to be supportive while explaining somewhat how it works, because really, it's far beyond something you can work out at the urinal, it takes time and effort to understand it all.

But you go, all you open mic guys setting the world on fire, you go, you all seem to know so much about how it all works after what, 2, 3 times out?



rct

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Ditch

...How many times do they want to be paid for the same song...

Apparently every time someone plays their intellectual property at a public performance. And per ASCAP, a public performance is one that occurs either in a public place where people gather (other than a small circle of a family or social acquaintances). A public performance is also one that is transmitted to the public, for example, radio or TV broadcasts, and via the Internet.