Suggestions welcome: quest for that one guitar

jaytee32 · #1 05-05-2016, 10:35 AM

Before we start, please no suggestions of stuff that'll cost me multiple thousands of euros (or dollars) ...

I got back into acoustic gigging a few years ago, with a Takamine P1NC. Was a pretty nice guitar actually, however it sounded kind of weak (not enough umph in the bass) when I played solo (acoustic or amplified). Bought a Eastman E6D which turned out to be way too dark sounding ... I bought it because it had what the Tak didn't have.

Moved on to a Levinson LJ-24VS, which is brighter than the E6D but now I'm finding out, it's still too dark in some situations, especially when playing bar chords a bit up the neck ... at the nut it always sparkles. I pulled out the E6D while the Levinson was in the shop a few days ago, and while I still think the E6D is too dark, I really love that neck and fretboard!!

The one thing I want to try with the Levinson (I really do like the guitar, it feels like "my guitar", it just doesn't sound like it yet) is lots of different strings, seeing if I can brighten it up with the right choice there (run Martin SP 80/20 on it now).

Putting it all together: I need a guitar that I can plug in, that sounds good both acoustically and amplified, that's loud enough acoustically (I take it to pure acoustic jams sometimes), that has enough bottom end without being muddy, that has good sparkle, that sounds good amplified, that sounds good not only at the nut but all over the neck. Ideally the price range would be between 500 and 1500 euros.

The used market here isn't as good as it is in the states (I'm in Holland) ... for the name guitars like Martin, used prices are about 80% of new.

I'm thinking about the following guitars: never tried the Fender Paramounts, trying some different Takamines, and taking another look at the higher-end Eastmans (E20D or E20SS) ... o yeah btw I just love a sunburst guitar.

Thanks!

guitararmy · #2 05-05-2016, 11:11 AM

Before you give up on your Eastman you might try light gauge 80/20 bronze strings. I switched from PB to 80/20 on my E20D and liked the extra brightness.

At least around here the Blueridge line is nice for an inexpensive acoustic/electric dread....

SFCRetired · #3 05-05-2016, 11:19 AM

from my book of knowledge a Tak is going to be your best bet. Try a Rosewood version. But all taks are quiet on the low end and it's on purpose because it's easier to mix than a guitar with a louder bottom end.

You have two different playing venues and want a guitar for both and I don't think you can get what you want, personally speaking. Sure some can do both okay but not great. IMO

Have you considered a Sigma? They are a German guitar now and are built in China. They have everything from lam B/S to solid wood and some say they come close to a Martin. I have no idea as I have never played one although I started to buy one but went in a different direction.

Treenewt · #4 05-05-2016, 11:28 AM

I would look for an OM, if I was in your shoes. You'd get punch and clarity as well as some overall balance. Eastman E10 or E20 OM, perhaps a Larrivee OM, or maybe a Furch. And I'm a firm believer in the K&K Pure Mini pickup as an aftermarket install.

jaytee32 · #5 05-05-2016, 11:47 AM

Hi,

yeah funny you should say OM. The Tak was a kind of OM shape (they call it a NEX cutaway) -- the P1NC. I have an AC422 which is my home fingerstyle guitar that's a Grand Auditorium shape, I guess not too far off from a OM.

Don't think I've ever played any of the Eastman OMs though.

The Sigma is an interesting suggestion, haven't played one in decades.

I had tried a few lower-end Guilds I liked, maybe I should take a second look there.

Any thoughts on the E20D, the Rosewood and Dread vs Slope Shoulder making a difference with the Levinson? I really like the sound Jackie Greene gets here with an E20D.

Zissou Intern · #6 05-05-2016, 11:51 AM

Hey JT32:

Like you, I love the neck profiles and fingerboards of the Eastmen. I have an E10D and an E20D. They are both brighter than the E6D or E8D. My E20D is especially crisp sounding, but it also has that classic, full rosewood bass.

If you just want to try a string change, I find that the DR Phosphor Bronze strings have a bright tone, brighter than D'Addario J17's and Martin TR Monels.

Good luck!
Z

Zissou Intern · #7 05-05-2016, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaytee32

Don't think I've ever played any of the Eastman OMs though.

I had tried a few lower-end Guilds I liked, maybe I should take a second look there.

Any thoughts on the E20D, the Rosewood and Dread vs Slope Shoulder making a difference with the Levinson? .

I had an E10SS, and it was warmer and less bright than my E10D and E20D. I have played a handful of the E10/20OM's, and they are more focused and brighter than the dreads. They sound great. If I was into smaller bodied guitars, I'd own an E10OM.

dneal · #8 05-05-2016, 12:03 PM

Pack your potential trade material and visit your fellow countryman at The Fellowship of Acoustics (www.tfoa.eu).

They have a lot of stock on hand in a variety of price ranges, and dealt fairly with me (I traded a Martin in on a Collings).

riverrummed · #9 05-05-2016, 12:09 PM

There is a lot to be said for liking the neck and fretboard on any guitar so, owning two Eastmans myself, I'd do what guitararmy suggests and try some 80/20's from a bunch of different makers and see if you can't find a set that gets you where you want to go. And too, I'm not a fan of coated strings but a lot of talk I've seen in this forum about Elixirs indicates that they sound brighter too. You might look into them while you're at it.

jaytee32 · #10 05-06-2016, 03:51 AM

So I pulled out the Eastman and Levinson and did some side-by-side comparisons (see pic below).

The Levinson is louder at the front end of the note
The Eastman has more sustain
The Levinson has more sparkle and has a huge bass, seems to miss a lot of mids? The Eastman is more balanced across the spectrum.
I like the feel of ebony on the Eastman better than the rosewood on the Levinson
and the biggest difference: much larger frets on the Levinson

Seriously that last item surprised me, dunno why I never noticed it. I love the sound of the Levinson and the look too, for some reason it is hard for me to play clean on it ... I thought it was the setup, or maybe I needed to practice more, but the same passages that are tough on the Levinson seem to just flow on the Eastman, and I think it's because in comparison to the Levinson, the Eastman has these little bitty frets.

I'll give some of your suggestions here about strings a try on the Eastman ... and start saving for an E10D / E20D in sunburst, I really really like that look. Anybody know if the entire E6/E8/E10/E20 D series has the same fretboard / fret / neck specs?

Oh yeah, the pic.

ianb · #11 05-06-2016, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dneal

Pack your potential trade material and visit your fellow countryman at The Fellowship of Acoustics (www.tfoa.eu).

They have a lot of stock on hand in a variety of price ranges, and dealt fairly with me (I traded a Martin in on a Collings).

Excellent suggestion, Rudi and his son Coen at TFOA have a huge assortment in all price ranges, and are a pleasure to deal with. Eastman, Larrivee, used Martins, lots to choose from there. Well worth a visit!

GibbyPrague · #12 05-06-2016, 04:21 AM

Just one guitar that ticks all the boxes - J-45 of course, what else ?

jaytee32 · #13 05-06-2016, 07:59 AM

Yeah, the Levinson is a poor man's J-45. Wonder can I get a J-45 with ebony board and smaller frets? Seems like all the clones have rosewood board and big frets, maybe cause the real thing does too?

jaytee32 · #14 05-07-2016, 01:37 PM

Bump ... anybody know if I can get a J-45 with ebony board and smaller frets? What other guitars out there have ebony boards and smaller frets? Anybody know what the official designation (fret wire number) of the Eastman E-series frets is? I guess "small" is relative and not particularly descriptive ...

pjroberts · #15 05-07-2016, 02:03 PM

I think you need to look for one of these that ticks most of the boxes:
http://www.eastmanguitars.com/acoust...nought-e20d-sb

I had the sister of this, the natural top 20D, the one that got away. Balance in the low and high ends, great playability, looks awesome, the most under-rated guitar I've owned. Top quality, they're hand made, which means you need to play every one first, because there's not much automated manufacturing and therefore every sample's a bit different. But I've played many and they're all great. You have one so you know.

Seems like you may be interested in the slope shape. Eastman no longer does custom orders, so you'd maybe need to look at the real deal, a J45, which can be custom ordered, but it's going to fly above your budget line. But I would definitely take a look at the Eastman 20SS and 10SS. You might like the tone better on the E10s, which is the Mahoggany. To me, they are more bell like and even balanced, but, I like the rosewood too. I'm dangerous to my bank account.