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  #16  
Old 06-05-2010, 08:52 AM
Acoustic Rick Acoustic Rick is offline
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"do you buy Martin BECAUSE it's American, or do you buy Martin because YOU LIKE MARTINs... "

Both and no.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2010, 08:55 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Two weeks ago I told a friend, "I don't know exactly what my next guitar will be, but it will be made by Martin". I had in mind a HD-28AWB Elderly custom, or an 000-18V or OM-18GE. That was then. I just bought an Eastman AC420B. Not a Martin, not American. But I played it for an hour, and it spoke to me. I'll be considering Eastman for my mahogany OM, too. And I'll play some Martins and others, too. I don't delude myself into thinking my Eastman will be someone's collectible in 50 years, but then, I'll be dead and won't care very much ...
  #18  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:10 AM
shambolic shambolic is offline
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I think in Europe we have a healthy cynicism that lends itself to the free market. In the UK if one of our manufacturers are outstanding they will tend to survive, producing very top quality goods. The lower end of the the market is conceded to those countries where the cost of living is lower because we cannot seriously compete on that front. times are hard for every country's manufacturers now but strangely enough we were tipped into recession by economic events happening thousands of miles away. Seems we are all inextricably connected regardless. Bearing that in mind it seems best to go for the best you can afford wherever it may be produced. I can see the point in considering work conditions and sustainability though. Some of the far east manufacturers are also pretty good on this front though.
  #19  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:18 AM
skatalite skatalite is offline
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As for Chinese-made guitars: Love em. Like American guitars, there are hits and misses. But the increased quality coming out of the East is great for us consumers.

And, even as a journalist, I know about outsourcing. Believe it or not, newspaper copy editors have been outsourced to several countries, mostly India. Talk about an oddity: People living thousands of miles away editing stories based in, say, Orange County. I shake my head just thinking about it.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGuitarMan View Post
...These are great guitars at an amazing price. In the end, as a player, I guess that's all I really care about.
Hi LGM…

Yup, me too.

Our house sports 5 acoustics at the moment, two built in the USA, one Canada and two from Asia. They were chosen for their reputation and affordability and kept for their tone and playability.

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  #21  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:34 AM
ricll ricll is offline
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Martin, Taylor and Fender all make their lower end guitars in Mexico if I'm correct, while Guild and Breedlove do in Asia. As much as I'm sure they would love to keep 100% of their production in the US, at the end of the day they need to be affordable to compete with other imports and make a profit.
  #22  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:37 AM
cke cke is offline
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I think the quality of the imports is a good thing as it has raised the bar for the low cost guitar market and provides a useable instrument for well under what a domestic builder could do.

Getting to a level of 70% of "great guitar" is pretty easy and formulaic and lends itself to low cost, high volume production. It's getting that last 30% of "great guitar" is where the costs and the artistry comes in.

On an ultimate scale, I have not found the imports to be all that attractive as I have not found their sound very appealing but I do not deny they offer a better experience for players on a budget or just starting out. The domestic builders have responded with some great less expensive guitars in recent years but they will simply never get down into the sub-$500 in any meaningful way due to their inherent cost structures.
I agree. There are great differences between products of the top tier American luthiers and the rest of the world with some excetions.
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  #23  
Old 06-05-2010, 01:51 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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In terms of foreign-made musical instruments at my house, the champion nation by far is Canada - I just counted up and I've got six Canadian-made instruments here.

How come we never hear much on these online guitar forums about The Creeping Canadian Menace?!? THAT'S what really frightens me: that we're being slowly but insidiously Canadianized, and eventually we're all going to end up dressing like the McKenzie Brothers, and then take it further with hair and beards and missing teeth like all those French-Canadian hockey players whose idea of a good time is whacking people with a hockey stick!!


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PS: I think it's great that there are surprisingly high quality lowcost guitars coming out of China these days. We happen to be in a historical moment when that is actually possible. But the Chinese pay the same prices for raw materials as we do, and so eventually their prices will go up.

Short version: enjoy this historical moment while it's here, because it will change soon enough.
  #24  
Old 06-05-2010, 01:51 PM
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patticake patticake is offline
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i agree with the original poster. blueridge was the company that first made me think of it, because their low end all solid guitars are so nice, and as you go up the blueridge line, they keep sounding better. their parlors are the only parlors i really like the sound of below three grand, and i actually like them as much as those more expensive ones.

one of the nicest guitars i've played in the last year was an eastman AC822. finish and hardware were first rate, sound was a dream, neck was perfect. it was one of the guitars i'll remember for a very long time. if it weren't so deep, i'd have laid it away in a heartbeat. and price-wise, it was a lot more than those entry solid blueridges, but it was still quite a value.

also i play small guitars only, and i have yet to find a small u.s. made guitar i really like at any price - i've never really liked the boxy sound of most smaller guits. but guild makes a couple GADS that both fit my needs physically and sound very good, one on layaway, the other to ship monday, btw. i've tried a lot of guitars before i ordered those two including plenty of martins and gibsons and taylors.

funny thing, i found myself writing about price here more than once, but because of my current need for a smaller guitar, price doesn't even come into it. gibson makes a few guitars that work physically, but they're made to have that old-time blues sound, which is not what i'm looking for. the only martin i played that was physically comfortable was a terze, and i didn't like it at all. taylor doesn't make an all solid guitar that is small enough, nor does breedlove.

so there is something else for me to like about chinese made guitars in addition to price/value, and to me it's essential.
  #25  
Old 06-05-2010, 02:07 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricll View Post
while Guild and Breedlove do in Asia.
One thing about the Asian made Guilds and Breedloves is that while they are impeccably built, they seem to be quite a bit heavier built than their US made counterparts. (I can tell a US Breedlove from an Atlas series simply by the weight), and while lots of folks like the GAD series all the ones I've played seem dead compared to the Waverly ones.
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2010, 02:30 PM
brian a. brian a. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
.....How come we never hear much on these online guitar forums about The Creeping Canadian Menace?!? THAT'S what really frightens me: that we're being slowly but insidiously Canadianized, and eventually we're all going to end up dressing like the McKenzie Brothers, and then take it further with hair and beards and missing teeth like all those French-Canadian hockey players whose idea of a good time is whacking people with a hockey stick!!

Short version: enjoy this historical moment while it's here, because it will change soon enough.
Wade, I love your point of view.

For me, it is not which country, which continent or which hemisphere. It is how the item is produced and what are the side affects of the production. Much of Asia and the many of developing countries don't even consider these concerns. So my choice is to buy from clean industries and clean producers rather than polluters. If that means I have to spend more for clean products, then I am willing to spend more for a clean world.

Regarding the OP's opening comments about quality of Chinese guitars, I can only say I have never played one I have wanted to buy. Sure some were better players than other similarly priced guitars, but I wouldn't buy them either. Another interesting observation is the number of threads here and on other forums asking how they can improve, repair or enhance these Chinese made guitars. At first they love them, but soon they need repairs, major adjustments and replacement parts. As you can tell, I have yet to be impressed. For me, the true test will be in 10 or 20 years to see how many of these Chinese guitars are still around and if they will ever have vintage qualities.
  #27  
Old 06-05-2010, 03:10 PM
jmcphail jmcphail is offline
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This is also a theme in the resonator world.

The "low cost" becomes more of a "mid cost" after hotrodding the guitar with better cones and better tuning machines. The time spent modifying the neck stick pedestals to make it more responsive, fixing whatever problems the nut and bridge have, and rough fret dressing all add up, too. And the cost of tools and supplies.

And finally the "just as good" posts and endless arguing on internet forums takes its toll. Rationalizing a new guitar indicates a problem IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian a. View Post
Another interesting observation is the number of threads here and on other forums asking how they can improve, repair or enhance these Chinese made guitars. At first they love them, but soon they need repairs, major adjustments and replacement parts.
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  #28  
Old 06-05-2010, 03:13 PM
brian a. brian a. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patticake View Post
also i play small guitars only, and i have yet to find a small u.s. made guitar i really like at any price ......

funny thing, i found myself writing about price here more than once, but because of my current need for a smaller guitar, price doesn't even come into it.
Not to highjack this thread, but....

Patti, here are some more suggestions for small bodied solid wood guitars.

Santa Cruz small bodied http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr...allbodied.html
Santa Cruz Firefly http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr.../ff_model.html
Santa Cruz PJ http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr.../pj_model.html
Santa Cruz Style 1 http://www.santacruzguitar.com/instr...ty1_model.html

Collings Baby Series http://www.collingsguitars.com/baby-series.html

and from across the Atlantic..... Brook Guitars makes a number of small bodied guitars http://brookguitars.com/
  #29  
Old 06-05-2010, 03:41 PM
MichaelG MichaelG is offline
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Help me out here guys. Give me a list of acoustic Guitars that are still being made here if its not to tall an order.
  #30  
Old 06-05-2010, 03:50 PM
jlv08 jlv08 is offline
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The last few Martins I've played against my Johnson JD26 had no real advantage tonally or construction wise to merit me having to pay a small forune just to have a Martin when the JD26 was just as well built and had better tonal qualities at a more than reasonable price.

I've had to do a little adjusting to mine but it's doing just fine and I always am pleased with the sound and am amazed at the overtones this guitar makes.

Most of the Martins I've played lately have not had the sound that I expected to hear from them , but they were new instruments that probably needed to be played a while for them to start voicing well.

I've had in the past a D28, a D35, A hand made Gallager style D18 style guitar made by Tony Sullivan in Wartrace ,Tenn. Gibsons, Yamahas, Alvarez, Hofner, Seagull and none have been as nice as my JD26.

It's Asian made and I can't tell the difference in quality in make and the sound is great.
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