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  #16  
Old 05-07-2010, 04:24 AM
cpabolting cpabolting is offline
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I am a traditionalist so the concept of a bolt on/mortise & tenon neck bothers me a little bit. That said, Ryan doesn't use dovetail and his guitar are great.

I think most serious Martin players play an 18 or up so at least we think of the majority of Martins are dovetail. An odd exception....Martin DM3MD Dave Matthews Signature/Artist series...the only Signature/Artist series that had a mortise & tenon. Not really sure why. I think someone bumped their head the day that decision was made. I think it sounds a little thinner than all the other Signature/Artist Martins...though it is one of the most wanted Martins.
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  #17  
Old 05-07-2010, 05:15 AM
Todd Stock Todd Stock is offline
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I build both and I don't hear a difference. I reset both and there is a big difference in cost to the owner.

Fitting a single tail in a single socket is a piece of cake compared to the everyday cabinetmaking task of getting ALL the dovetails on a piece of casework to fit WITHOUT shims, filler, excess glue, etc. As far as dovetails requiring more skill than M&T to make and fit...sure, if you cut the joint by hand and never studied geometry; otherwise, either joint can be quickly cut with a router or CNC and fitting is no big deal for either.
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  #18  
Old 05-07-2010, 06:30 AM
JimB1 JimB1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warfrat73 View Post
The trick is to get a good, solid neck fit, whether the neck is fastened with glue or with bolts.
I think this is very true but also, I think a wood on wood connection is very important. The better bolt on necks don't just sit on top of the neck block but fit into it somehow. If you look at Taylor's NT joint, it's cupped at the top and back so the joint fits together like a puzzle piece. It's that wood-to-wood joint that transfers the vibration from the neck to the body evenly and vice versa.

I think many folks like the dovetails because by their nature they are a wood on wood connection and even if the glue joint gives, a properly fitted dovetail will stay seated. Most true bolt-ons will get wobbly if the bolts loosen. Martin uses a bolted Mortise and tenon joint that is glued for the 1, 15, 16 and X series guitars. I've been told that the bolt can be removed after the glue cures but it's not recommended because if the glue joint gives, there's nothing to hold the neck.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone make a guitar with the same specs using both types of joints so I have no idea if there is any sort of tone difference between them. The theory I've heard is that the material and weight of the bolts alters the vibrations coming to the neck so the sound is different then a direct wood-to-wood connection of a dovetail. Lots of players even say the material of the neck alters the tone.

I can't say if that is true or not but it's a theory I've heard...

-Jim
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  #19  
Old 05-07-2010, 06:46 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Martin uses mortise and tenon on their lower end guitars and dovetail 18 series and higher, it may well be more about cost than anything.

I don't care what neck joint they use, a guitar has to have the sound I'm looking for, if it sound good it sounds good. My OMC-Aura is mortise and tenon, I can't tell any sonic difference, but it's also my least expensive Martin and doesn't have quite the sound of the high enders. Whether that's a function of the neck joint or a 16 series based guitar against 42/45's I don't know.

Bourgeois and Collings make great guitars, so I am neck joint indifferent, give me tone and I could care less about ther neck joint.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2010, 07:13 AM
Chazmo Chazmo is offline
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I'm no expert, but I do think it's a question of tradition and, for some folks, part of the definition of the instrument. The same thing can be said about the materials used in the instrument.

In terms of quality, someone said it earlier that there are plenty of examples of poorly-executed dove tails and plenty of examples of exceptional bolt-ons.

I have both bolt-ons and dovetails. I love both. IMO, strings, body style, saddle, bracing, even finishing... all have far more impact on tone of the instrument than the neck and it's joinery.

I do nod my head though that when it comes to buying traditional instruments there are some expectations here that are important to people. I do not claim those are always rational or even common across different people.
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