A dads observation on learning

[CharlieBman]

The choice and persistence to play any musical instrument is ultimately a very personal choice. While you can point the way to someone, it's the person who makes the decision to travel that journey.

The desire to be great at something with little effort is a childish endeavor...and I don't mean that in a debasing way. It's just something that children do. No amount of logic or cajoling is going to convince them otherwise. Push them too soon and they may never make the journey.

People have to find their own way as to what playing a musical instrument actually means to "them". Your son just seems to be at a place where he's not ready to realize what that truly means. Give him time to find out what's best for himself. Expressing your own love and joy through your own playing is likely to have a better effect on him. But ultimately the decision is his and his alone.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by Osage

Growing up my Mom really wanted me to play the piano. We had an old piano in the house and I took lessons for 5 years. I had zero interest and it showed in how poorly I progressed. I wish she had been more supportive of my interests instead of pushing hers on me.

I pretty much have the same story, except my parents had a 7’4” grand on one side of the living room and an antique Steinway upright on the other side. My sisters and I were all made to take piano for 5 years. My parents were classical music snobs who looked down their noses at any other kind of music. My father was a music professor - piano, music lit, etc.. and my mom also had a music undergrad degree in piano and played for our church. When I quit piano at age 11, they wanted nothing to do with me playing guitar and were not supportive at all.

[J Patrick]

There are a lot of things I don’t get about my kids…..just like there were a lot of things my parents didn’t get about me. I’m incredibly proud of my children for finding their own way and making their own life. It would have been a blast to play music with them, they both did well in school bands playing clarinet but unlike me, music is not their passion. There is so much more that we share.

If music is inside of you it will come out no matter what. Yes, encouragement can help but it’s not enough without desire. When the two combine great things can happen.

[Cenulab]

When asked about what it takes to be a good guitar player (something I aspire to be), I tell people that to have the best shot at it, you have to ENJOY practicing. If practicing is just a chore - a means to an end-you're likely never going to get there.

Sounds like you get that, OP, but perhaps it's just not the same for your son. There's nothing wrong with that.

[mawmow]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

(…) He has this mental block that if he can't be David Gilmour in two weeks then he will not bother even trying. Its is very frustrating for me.(…)

Your son should be reminded that he did not begin to walk that easily :
His brain, nerves and muscles had to develop to make him walk.

It is quite the same with playing guitar and it does not occur within a month :
He has to understand that practice makes better because his hands and brain have to train and this takes months.

By the way, the brain comes to adult age only by 25 so that learning is easier before 20.
My former coach told me that the learning curve uses to flatten by age 40.

Why not try playing along three chords songs ?

But maybe your son just does not feel he should learn…

[mr. beaumont]

My kids (12 and 10) haven't expressed much interest in music yet. My 12 year has tinkered a bit with a keyboard, but that took a backseat for basketball/volleyball season. My 10 year old not at all.

I have no desire to force them into playing. Nobody forced me, and when the time was right, I was completely hooked.

[Jamolay]

To pick up guitar with a goal to be great, like Gilmour, is setting oneself up for failure. At least your son knows better than to bother.

I think the path to success, which I define as a pleasurable and meaningful process, is playing because you want to and enjoy playing and learning. Some few of those who do that may become great, most just have a nice musical part of our lives that we value and enjoy. I certainly don’t need to taint my experience with the frustration of never being up to my (or my father’s) preconceived expectations. That sounds sad and painful.

[TBman]

When I first learned guitar (at around the age of 8) I wanted to learn. Although I'm not very good, I still play (after an on again off again courtship with the guitar - I'm 69 now). I've been playing now for around 20 years steady and I still want to play. You have to have that, the wanting, to initially learn and to continue to play over the years. You can't talk someone into that. It has to come from within.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

I was a very late entrant into the learn to play guitar world. Started at 56 and am now about 10 years into my journey. I would consider myself somewhere between a beginner and "knocking on the door" of being an intermediate player. Admittedly life gets in the way or my progress would be much better.

I have a 16 year old son who took a rock history course and is absolutely more dialled in to the bands of my era than I ever will be. He talks about chord progressions, riffs, basic theory and other stuff like he has been playing for years.

However, he will not even think about touching any of my guitars. I have been trying to convince him that the younger he starts the better musician he will be.

He has this mental block that if he can't be David Gilmour in two weeks then he will not bother even trying. Its is very frustrating for me.

I stink at guitar but for me it is very cathartic and relaxing. When I am playing I only focus on my playing and not anything else that would be bothering me.

Is there anyone else out there dealing with this? I tell him that professional musicians are just that...professionals. We all can't play like Clapton. Or throw footballs like Brady. Or hit golf balls like Tiger. But that doesn't stop most people from playing golf anyway.

I just don't get it.

I empathise with Sponserv, I had really hoped to teach my wife her son (my stepson - now 55) and two likely step grandsons.

Wouldn't it be a wonder to play with family ? Didn't happen! why not? because they are their own people and following in the paths of the old folk isn't always, often isn't their path of discovery.

Pop psychology here , but maybe trying to get them to follow you is exactly what drives them away. "Oh the old man is always telling me that I'm doing it wrong ... Doh!

Sometimes the best way is to tell them NOT to play guitar! Sometimes, maybe, they might be drawn by your playing passion by seeing you trying and failing.

I live in a county that has an ancient saying:
"We wunt be druv" - the unofficial county motto of Sussex in southern England. It is a dialect phrase meaning "we will not be driven". The motto asserts that people from the county have minds of their own, and cannot be forced against their will or told what to do.

When the Romans pitched up, the local tribes didn't fight them, they kinda ignored them, and adopted the things that they found useful!

If Sponserv didn't take up guitar until his fifties, maybe no.1 son, might take that long to determine his own direction.

[SFCRetired]

My son quit playing at Mary Had a Little Lamb. He realized it was going to take more than a couple weeks and he wasn't going to invest the time it takes.

They do this for a variety of reasons. Kids today want instant gratification, that's our fault. Some people just don't have the love of wanting to play music.

Don't beat him or yourself up, it's just the way things are.

I had a childhood friend whose dad played the guitar. I was at a class reunion a couple years ago and he told me his one regret was never learning to play the guitar. You might want to tell your son, don't be that guy. But if he has no interest don't push it. It's like TBman said, it comes from within.

Edit: Reminds me of another story. My MIL forced my wife to take piano lessons when she was a child because she played the piano. I don't know if it was rebellion or no interest but she finally quit and won't touch a piano to this day, even though she actually learned how to play "somewhat"

[tinnitus]

Probably not the case, but there's always this...

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by SFCRetired;7450406Kids

kids today want instant gratification, that's our fault. Some people just don't have the love of wanting to play music.

Don't beat him or yourself up, it's just the way things are."

…. Let’s not put kids these days in a box….just as we were not all the same in our youth, neither are kids today…..I know exceptionally dedicated young musicians, more than there were in my early days, As for my kids, they’ve worked long and hard to achieve their success. No short cuts….just determination and fortitude.

[TheGITM]

The only thing I have ever pushed on my kids is that they try as many different things as they can while they are young to try and discover what they are passionate about... I don't care what those things are, I just want them to discover them as early as possible so they can pursue them.

My son is passionate about art (something I was never good at) so he's at an art college getting fine arts degree. My daughter is still looking, but in the meantime she is getting a degree in strategic business communications and will be interning over the summer doing field reporting/investigative journalism (or supporting a professional journalist in that role).

My son has also been involved in scouting, robotics, computer programming, and other things... my daughter is also a very talented flutist (and actually, multi-instrumentalist) but has no desire to pursue a degree in music or pursue a career in music.

As a young person I rebelled against every expectation that was set for me. Actually to the point of resenting having those expectations placed on me. I consciously chose to NOT do that with my kids. If they simply strive to be the best they can be in whatever they choose, then that's enough for me. I view my job as a parent, as someone to be there to help facilitate opportunities. To help them open the doors that they knock upon... once the door is open, it's up to them to determine how far into that room they want to go... and they can knock on as many doors as they want. There are no mistakes, just lessons to learn and experiences to build upon.

[Sponserv]

Originally Posted by fazool

does he WANT to play guitar or do YOU want him to play guitar?

Thats a great question Fazool. Do I want him to play guitar? Yes, absolutely. Does he want me to play video games? Yes, absolutely.

But when he asks me if a certain artists bend is a whole or half note while listening to a song I get sad because he understands so much more than some folks who DO play guitar.

And for the record....I never go into his room and ask him what level he is at in the video game he is playing. I am sure if I showed even a basic understanding of a particular game he would get excited and want me to play.

[Sponserv]

So many great responses to my original post. Thanks very much for taking the time.

My takeaway here is to just let my son find his own path. As long as he is happy and passionate about whatever he is into I will be grateful.

He just competed in Houston at the First Robotics World Championships. He is a GREAT kid. We love him so much and are very proud of him.

But point well taken.....I will just be there for him if he ever comes around with a greater interest in learning guitar.

Thanks again for everyone's insight.