Are the Seagull S6 & the Simon & Patrick SP6 basically the same guitar?

[mashup]

These guitars look incredibly similar in spec and i know they are both made by Godin, but are they the same?

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by mashup

These guitars look incredibly similar in spec and i know they are both made by Godin, but are they the same?

Close but not the same. The major difference is the S and P has a 1.72 nut vs 1.8 on the S6. The S6 Cedar Slim has the 1.72"nut. Also, the headstock's are different and the finish may be as well.

[pgilmor]

I've never heard a S&P that sounded as good as a Seagull, but I don't know why that is, since they do seem almost identical. Listened to a guy playing an S&P yesterday in a small show and it just sounded boxy. Seagulls to me have much better tone.

[mashup]

Im only asking because i plan on buying one of the 2 very soon. I am leaning towards the Seagull, but where i live (U.K) the Simon & Patrick is more readily available. So if they are basically the same guitar tonally then i may as well just get the S & P.

[Lash]

Different body dimensions.

[Gostwriter]

After researching guitar companies for a while for an article I am working on I can tell you this much.

Well for one, they both offer French and English versions of their web sites and they both come from La Patrie Quebec a village of about 500 people half of whom are guitar makers. They are also both owned by the same company Godin guitars also out of La Patrie Quebec. They are the acoustic guitar divisions of Godin.

S&P uses all solid tops and claims to pressure test each piece for ridigity, and harmoonic vibration which in effect makes for better tone, projection and resonance and also adds to the life of the guitar. They also use a New Integrated Set neck System which alows for better action and less possibility of warping as well as a Custom Polished Finish. They use a B Band Electronics system wth under saddle transducer and chromatic tuner built in.

Seagull employs many of the same procedures as S&P if not all.Seagull also uses a reverse grain and tapered headstock. This procedure is said to make for more accurate string tuning due to less twisting on the neck as strings are tuned. Seagull uses a compensated saddle for neck pitch and a tusq saddle and nut. They also use their own Q1 and QII electronics system again with under saddle transducer. I almost think you would be hard pressed to find the differences except maybe for the reverse headstocl on the Seagull.

I would go for which ever one fits your budget best and makes you happiest.

[Wade Hampton]

I have owned several of each; currently the Godin-made 6 string guitar I have I have is a Simon & Patrick. (I also have a Seagull 12 string...)

Unlike pgilmor, I cannot hear any significant differences between the two brands. The main differences, as has been noted, are in the neck width and peghead designs.

I happen to prefer the slightly sleeker neck width and feel of the Simon & Patrick guitars - the Seagulls I've owned have all had necks that were not only chunkier, but felt coarser, as well.

But that's honestly not all that big a deal, at least not to me. When I decided to pick up another a few years ago, I would have bought either - I was just looking for a good-sounding inexpensive used guitar to take along to church functions and to experiment with putting a soundport into the side.

If it had been a Seagull that popped up first on Craigslist, I probably would have bought it. But it was a Simon & Patrick that showed up, and I nabbed it.

Your mileage may vary, but to me the only significant differences between the two are in the neck width and feel. The peghead design doesn't matter to me either way, and I honestly can't hear any tonal advantages to the Seagull straight pull design.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[mashup]

Thank you for the extensive & informative responses friendly people. I am currently looking at a S & P SP6 on Gumtree, which is like a U.K version of Craigslist. The seller is getting back to me with a year on the guitar, a price and some more details. I'll update the information he sends me, and maybe you could give me your opinion on whether it's a good deal or not? Thanks

[malcolm kelt]

Good luck with the purchase, I had an SP6 for a number of years, my son still has it, still sounds good, must be about 25 years old now, nice guitar.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by malcolm kelt

Good luck with the purchase, I had an SP6 for a number of years, my son still has it, still sounds good, must be about 25 years old now, nice guitar.

You know this thread is from 2011, right?

[gemberbier]

Originally Posted by mashup

Im only asking because i plan on buying one of the 2 very soon. I am leaning towards the Seagull, but where i live (U.K) the Simon & Patrick is more readily available. So if they are basically the same guitar tonally then i may as well just get the S & P.

Simon and Patrick guitars are just as good as Seagull guitars.
If an S&P sounds boxy,
it is because some distributors decided to make coated d'Addario strings OEM on them.
Swap them for EJ-16 uncoated or Elixir 80/20 bronze .012s and it will sound as clear and bright as can be. Coated d'Addario strings suck.

[nikpearson]

Don’t get me wrong, they can sound different, less bright and more like an unocated set after a week or two, but I’ve never experienced any coated strings make a guitar sound boxy. That is usually down to the size, or being overbuilt.

If you’re unconvinced by coated strings I’d suggest trying D’Addario’s latest XS. For me these are the best coated strings out there.

[gemberbier]

Originally Posted by nikpearson

Don’t get me wrong, they can sound different, less bright and more like an unocated set after a week or two, but I’ve never experienced any coated strings make a guitar sound boxy. That is usually down to the size, or being overbuilt.

If you’re unconvinced by coated strings I’d suggest trying D’Addario’s latest XS. For me these are the best coated strings out there.

I have this experience with d'Addario EXP-16 on the Cort L100P.
The boxiness disappeared when I changed the wound strings, because the d'Addario coating doesn't protect the core of the strings.
It protects the windings only. The core rusts underneath. Sweat gets in and has difficulties getting out. The Elixir coating is a sock around the whole string, so no sweat gets in.

[davenumber2]

Originally Posted by gemberbier

The core rusts underneath. Sweat gets in and has difficulties getting out. The Elixir coating is a sock around the whole string, so no sweat gets in.

How do you know this exactly? Did you peel off the windings? And why would corroded strings lead to a boxy sound? I'm not following.

[foleyone]

I've owned a Simon and Patrick for 14 years. A while back I thought I might want a Seagull, and I played many over the years. I never ended up buying one because it turns out they're essentially identical. They may even be made in the same factory. I believe there are a few Godin factories in the same area in Quebec that produce Norman Guitars, Art and Lutherie, Simon and Patrick and Seagull guitars (and maybe other brands that I'm not aware of). I'm a fan of Godin guitars. From what I've seen they all seem to have the same engine under the hood with minor aesthetic differences.

Like most others have mentioned the two guitars are identical in many respects right down to the bracing. The most notable difference being the necks, with Seagull having wider necks and a unique peghead.

There seems to be no discernable sound difference in my view. I'd be happy with either guitar, although I do like the unique look of the Seagull headstock.