#106
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being more productive means a company will make more money but people buying more will add jobs in the long run... |
#107
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Very well put.... |
#108
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#109
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/wo...hina.html?_r=1 http://www.mongabay.com/external/china's_environment_2004.htm http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/08...n-goes-global/ http://www.dipity.com/timetube/YouTube_Pollution/list No eye protection or ear plugs. Only a very few with respirators or masks. Handheld drills and no CNC machines in evidence. Everyone is dressed like it is winter and there is no heat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFFvrHHct70 So if this info is what is allowed out of the country, what is happening that we're not allowed to see? How do they generate electricity? Where do they dump their waste? What about the air they breath? It is a global economy and a global environment. With the knowledge, experience and science currently available, there is absolutely no need for any country to manufacture, farm or produce energy by unsafe or polluting means. IMHO, that includes the making of guitars. Shop wherever you like. Buy whatever you like. I try very hard to buy my food, clothes, cars, skis and guitars from business practicing the greenest techniques available today. More often than not, they do so because it is required of them by local or national governmental laws. |
#110
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It certainly doesn't jive for banjos, and retail centralization or the lack thereof may have a lot to do with that... Quote:
For me, personally, the MiC issue hasn't been about quality as it has been about pricing and market honesty. When Nike moved their shoe production across the waters, it was done with some PR that "the value would find its way to the consumer." I'm still waiting for that value whenever I see a Nike shoe. The same goes for some of the guitar brands who build in countries with considerably lower SoL's than the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, and Japan. While I wish these manufacturers were all like Eastman and Yamaha, it's foolish to think they are. I don't wince at the idea of buying a MiC guitar because of supporting communism or helping to drive my neighbor or friend out of a job; I wince because of crooked and greedy means in which I'm being pitched the item. I'm supposed to believe that buying something 10-20x times what it cost to produce it is just as good for me, the consumer, as it is the producer, when I can clearly see that I'm not winning as much as the manufacturer. |
#111
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I've played Stephen Bennett's Japanese Morris guitar and it is a superb instrument - very light and responsive with a clear tone. There's more info at http://artisanguitars.com/morris-gui...oustic-guitar/
It's not cheap by any means but it's worth the money.
__________________
Gerry |
#112
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That guy in the video (5:10) was spraying the finish on that guitar with no mask (or maybe a little paper mask - hard to tell) in a closed space. Very, very bad. If he's doing that full-time I feel very bad for him and everyone else working with him. The woman a few feet from him definitely wasn't wearing a mask.
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#113
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Interesting that most of us are typing in this discussion using computers that are probably loaded with bits made in China (this Mac certainly is).
None of us have commented about that - it also 'took jobs away from xxx'. In Europe, there are an incredible amount of Chinese-made goods around, and we're not even aware of it. It IS globalisation, much of it driven economically by the very companies that you want to keep going. Wake up and smell the roses. My Guild JUST HAPPENED TO BE MADE IN CHINA - when they get expensive, it'll be made somewhere else. QED
__________________
NOT from Queen - he's much cleverer I am English, so are all my spellings Two guitars I'm happy with . . . |
#114
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Only one of the links that BrianA referred to was in relation to a guitar factory. The rest of the links appear to be based on guilt by association. They deal with well-known cases of abuses of the environment and workers' rights in China. However IMHO what the post appears to - in effect - be doing is to be judging the Chinese economy based on the fact that it is not the American economy. Put yourself into the Chinese entrepreneuer's shoes for a minute. Is it the Chinese factory's fault that they are located in China and that their energy production comes from power plants powered by coal that was mined in unhealthy and dangerous ways? The whole country can't be ported instantly into where USA is. It takes a long time to bring a whole country up. What more with a country that has a centralised power structure controlled by a political party that is monolithic in its power demands. However, until the day that China morphes into an American or European standard economy, should American consumers not buy their goods? What if European countries had imposed similar standards on American exports in the 19th century, when labor was supplied by slaves, cheap exploited immigrants of various nationalities, etc. and environmental depredations were being done everywhere? America may not have arisen to its current elevated state among the nations. Yes, one can say, that was then, this is now. But one can only deal with one's state of progress and problems at any given time. The problems of rising upwards on the prosperity ladder are still there. Yes, it is inexcusable in the light of today's technology for OSHA and environmental protection standards not to be maintained - for an industrialised nation of such vast and sophisticated means as USA. But what about countries in Latin America, Asia, Africa, which have large portions of their population at subsistence level? Despite China's rising status, vast proportions of its population remain at a very basic level in the countryside. Such vertical perfection frm energy generation to procurement of labor and resources, etc may not be possible within their economic means to comply with such standards because a lot of that is beyond the power of the individual manufacturer. What China and countries like China have is a vast pool of citizens who are young, eager to learn, hard working, intelligent, and flexible. Also, should you want environmental and OSHA perfection in all your goods and services, to be consistent with your approach, you need to make sure that all your clothes, goods, foodstuffs, etc. were made in industrialised nations such as USA, the EU or Canada with the full panel of green-compliant and OSHA standards. If it was made in Asia, Latin America, etc, chances are it will probably fail your test. The produce - coffee, etc - that we eat come from African and Asian countries that may also fail such tests. Does that mean that one should not buy goods made by all such countries? Concerning the one link relating to a guitar factory, the only thing that can be said is that some of the workers spraying the guitar bodies were wearing too basic respirators. I don't think the ear protection argument is conclusive as that depends on the level of noise being produced at the work station concerned. Why does CNC machinery have to be used? Such equipment are not only for speed of production but also for labor saving reasons that come down to cost of wages. The need to save on wages is less in China since wages are lower than in USA. I do not see what internal heating has to do with anything - it may be standard practice for Chinese houses and factories to be unheated and that everyone is used to wearing clothing. I do not see anyone discomfited in the least by the cold. Everyone is behaving normally and working normally, and no one appears to be suffering from the cold at all. |
#115
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I was just also imagining that the Chinese worker in that factory who may have left his hometown to travel to the city to work a few years ago, and who needs this job because he is sending money back to his family, would be awfully surprised to learn that the American consumers are so concerned for his health and his welfare that they are refusing to buy guitars made by him and his co-workers, thereby causing the factory to close down and him to lose his job. He may actually be of the view that his welfare is better served if you continue to buy the guitars so that he can keep his job and earn his keep. Eventually he can either be promoted or move on to a better job...
Last edited by airguitarro; 06-08-2010 at 01:16 AM. |
#116
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#117
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once again folks, I ask that you refrain from posting your political views or points in this thread..................
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#118
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Strongly Agree.
Understanding what you're buying *in addition* is key. Whether you decide that you also want the byproducts of your purchase or not is your choice. Ethics at work in everyday life.
__________________
-------------------------------------------------- Identical String Change polls on the front page by two different people? Seriously? Shill - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill Sockpuppet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet_(internet) Forumspam - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam |
#119
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Oh, so only some opinions and/or points of view get censored ....
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#120
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OK, I will end my posts on this thread at this point then.
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