Can A Lowered Break Angle Affect Intonation?

ac2300 · #1 08-29-2015, 11:45 PM

Hey Guys,We have had a number of our POWER PIN users, claim that they actually improved, the intonation on their guitar. One of them is a texas based musician, who Joe Ely has them on his Taylor T-5s. His guitar tech contacted me , and told me that he had been going to bring it to a Taylor, to correct the intonation, but after he installed the POWER PINS it wasnt necessary. Can anyone explain why this could possibly be happening, or is it psycho acoustics, snake oil .and or a tone killer,anyone have an insight? Thanks =AC=

ac2300 · #2 08-30-2015, 12:12 AM

Well it seems to be recurring from disparate sources, and absolutely unsolicited. Thanks for you opinion.

tysam · #3 08-30-2015, 12:12 AM

Unless your power pins change where the string breaks on the saddle....no change to intonation.

rick-slo · #4 08-30-2015, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac2300

Well it seems to be recurring from disparate sources, and absolutely unsolicited. Thanks for you opinion.

Well it would be a helpful selling point for you. Go for the testimonials.

ac2300 · #5 08-30-2015, 12:14 AM

Thats what i thought too, but they are adamant that they changed nothing else.

ac2300 · #6 08-30-2015, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Well it would be a helpful selling point for you. Go for the testimonials.

I dont want to do that , if theres no way of explaining it, im hoping someone has an answer.Thanks for your input.

rick-slo · #7 08-30-2015, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac2300

I dont want to do that , if theres no way of explaining it, im hoping someone has an answer.Thanks for your input.

You have a group of people that have altered their guitars in the same way, spent a little money on it, and weren't too skeptical to be trying it in the first place. A pretty
good percentage will be looking for some changes in their guitars as a result, intonation changes would be one (not a very logical one, but one nevertheless). A certain
percentage will "hear" those changes (with a new set of strings most often BTW) whether real or not.

That is my answer.

Norml · #8 08-30-2015, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

You have a group of people that have altered their guitars in the same way, spent a little money on it, and weren't to skeptical to be trying it in the first place. A pretty good percentage will be looking for some changes in their guitars as a result, intonation changes would be one (not a very logical one, but one nevertheless). A certain percentage will "hear" those changes (with a new set of strings most often BTW) whether real or not.

That is my answer.

Stop being so logical!

ac2300 · #9 08-30-2015, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

You have a group of people that have altered their guitars in the same way, spent a little money on it, and weren't too skeptical to be trying it in the first place. A pretty
good percentage will be looking for some changes in their guitars as a result, intonation changes would be one (not a very logical one, but one nevertheless). A certain
percentage will "hear" those changes (with a new set of strings most often BTW) whether real or not.

That is my answer.

Very good,i like it!

Alan Carruth · #10 08-30-2015, 03:45 PM

Unlike claims about changes in tone, this is something that is amenable to objective measurements. Maybe you should do some? Trevor Gore maintains that having 'straight pull' on the strings at the head improves the intonation by allowing the back strings to stretch a bit, reducing the amount the strings go sharp when they're fretted. Since he's arguing that on the basis of data he got, I'm accepting it for now. So there's a theory you could go on, and a method for testing it out. I'm not sure that the 'backstring' length on a 'Power Pin' is enough to matter, but maybe the pins themselves flex a bit and give the same result? Just thinking on the keyboard...

I DID do experiments with changing the break angle on a guitar a while back, but not using 'Power Pins'. What I found was the break angle, BY ITSELF, made no difference in the sound of the guitar. Since I did all of my experiments with open string notes I can't speak to intonation issues.

ac2300 · #11 08-30-2015, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

Unlike claims about changes in tone, this is something that is amenable to objective measurements. Maybe you should do some? Trevor Gore maintains that having 'straight pull' on the strings at the head improves the intonation by allowing the back strings to stretch a bit, reducing the amount the strings go sharp when they're fretted. Since he's arguing that on the basis of data he got, I'm accepting it for now. So there's a theory you could go on, and a method for testing it out. I'm not sure that the 'backstring' length on a 'Power Pin' is enough to matter, but maybe the pins themselves flex a bit and give the same result? Just thinking on the keyboard...

I DID do experiments with changing the break angle on a guitar a while back, but not using 'Power Pins'. What I found was the break angle, BY ITSELF, made no difference in the sound of the guitar. Since I did all of my experiments with open string notes I can't speak to intonation issues.

Thanks so much Alan, i thought you might have an idea about this. We have several small boutique guitar makers testing them now, and ill see if they might be able to try that.