The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 08-26-2015, 07:37 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Florida Space Coast
Posts: 13,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzd View Post
Yep. No way it cracked that badly in that case.
I take it you haven't read the entire thread.
__________________
Phil

Playing guitar badly since 1964.

Some Taylor guitars.
Three Kala ukuleles (one on tour with the Box Tops).
A 1937 A-style mandolin.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:11 PM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 683
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flaggerphil View Post
I take it you haven't read the entire thread.
Or maybe just disagrees with those who theorize -- and that's what we're all doing -- that the damage could have occurred without opening the case.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-27-2015, 07:24 AM
dagobert dagobert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texa
Posts: 970
Default

I showed these pictures and shared the basic information with a couple of engineers from work - one is a materials engineer and the other is our failure analyst. They have been mulling it over since yesterday afternoon so I'm going to go check with them and see what their thoughts are.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-27-2015, 07:30 AM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: my father's attic
Posts: 5,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagobert View Post
I showed these pictures and shared the basic information with a couple of engineers from work - one is a materials engineer and the other is our failure analyst. They have been mulling it over since yesterday afternoon so I'm going to go check with them and see what their thoughts are.
I would be interested in their thoughts since we all are really just theorizing. I'm particularly interested in how a guitar gets that kind of damage when the case remains virtually unscathed. Carbon fiber is strong but....
__________________
Don't chase tone. Make tone.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:36 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagobert View Post
I showed these pictures and shared the basic information with a couple of engineers from work - one is a materials engineer and the other is our failure analyst.
I'm a Materials Scientist and Physicist.

The guitar was clearly dropped on concrete from several feet up, and landed on the front edge binding. The top then failed due to instantaneous compression loading.

Impossible to take that kind of damage while in the case. (IMO)
__________________
Larrivee OM-03RE; O-01
Martin D-35; Guild F-212; Tacoma Roadking
Breedlove American Series C20/SR
Rainsong SFTA-FLE; WS3000; CH-PA
Taylor GA3-12, Guild F-212

https://markhorning.bandcamp.com/music
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:57 AM
jeanray1113 jeanray1113 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,161
Default

I saw this on Facebook first. Someone made several responses, stating that he was a luthier and had seen many instruments damaged in flight, and that it was virtually never the fault of the airline or TSA. He said the case was a cheap knockoff and insufficient to protect the guitar from normal shifting and falls that could occur in the plane's baggage hold. Also made some disparaging statements about Dave Carroll (United Breaks Guitars). Of all of the negative experiences I've read about on this forum and elsewhere, that musicians have had with airlines, I've never seen anything like it before. Makes one wonder if he is used as some kind of expert consultant by airlines. Name was Paul something. I could probably find it. Wasn't going to include his name, but he had no qualms about doing so on fb, do why should I?
__________________
"Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans."-John Lennon

2015 Taylor 512ce 12 fret
early 80's Ovation Ultra 1517
2011 Seagull Entourage Rustic
2011 Taylor Limited NS214ce
2010 Taylor 512c
2016 Ibanez AG75
2014 Taylor GS Mini Koa e
2018 Loar LH 301t
1998 Breedlove Fall Limited # 10 of 20 Redwood/Walnut
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-29-2015, 04:33 AM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanray1113 View Post
I saw this on Facebook first. Someone made several responses, stating that he was a luthier and had seen many instruments damaged in flight, and that it was virtually never the fault of the airline or TSA. He said the case was a cheap knockoff and insufficient to protect the guitar from normal shifting and falls that could occur in the plane's baggage hold. Also made some disparaging statements about Dave Carroll (United Breaks Guitars). Of all of the negative experiences I've read about on this forum and elsewhere, that musicians have had with airlines, I've never seen anything like it before. Makes one wonder if he is used as some kind of expert consultant by airlines. Name was Paul something. I could probably find it. Wasn't going to include his name, but he had no qualms about doing so on fb, do why should I?
I read through the responses to Don Ross' post and couldn't find the one you mention, but I did see what I thought a really useful piece of advice from one poster. It won't stop baggage handlers mistreating the case, but it will stop any TSA goons from mistreating the contents.

Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:09 PM
jeanray1113 jeanray1113 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,161
Default

i read through the responses again last night, too, and they were nowhere to be found. Apparently he removed them. Needless to say, he go some pretty strong responses and maybe he decided it might not do his business any good to leave them up. Pretty inflammatory for him to say that Don had used a "cheap knockoff" case when Dan had clearly stated this the same case Yo-yo Ma uses for his cello and to insult Dave Carroll who has quite a following. I really wish I could remember the guy's name.
__________________
"Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans."-John Lennon

2015 Taylor 512ce 12 fret
early 80's Ovation Ultra 1517
2011 Seagull Entourage Rustic
2011 Taylor Limited NS214ce
2010 Taylor 512c
2016 Ibanez AG75
2014 Taylor GS Mini Koa e
2018 Loar LH 301t
1998 Breedlove Fall Limited # 10 of 20 Redwood/Walnut
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:17 PM
Portland Bill Portland Bill is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 416
Default

Its just a guitar and can easily be replaced, I'm sure Don would sound just as good on a nice new one.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-29-2015, 01:13 PM
psychojohn psychojohn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 2,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portland Bill View Post
Its just a guitar and can easily be replaced, I'm sure Don would sound just as good on a nice new one.
Yes, and in the grand scheme of things, if this is the worst he experiences in his life it will have been a good life ... but .... there is no excuse for how this happened and goes beyond negligent into the criminally malicious realm !!

And raises the interesting notion, would we be better shipping our cases in "low dollar" looking apparel in the hopes of not screaming to the malicious psychopathic handler: "There's a very expensive guitar in here."

I know of more than one professional guitarist that take their high dollar guitars out of the factory case or custom cases when traveling to a gig because it advertises to criminals: "Here is a good steal, if you can get it." Cheap cases suggest cheap guitars not worth the time or effort to steal or maliciously destroy.

John
__________________
12 Fret Tinker Dread
12 Fret EJ Henderson Dread
12 Fret Hotrod Tricone
13 Fret Charis SJ
Martin D-41
Halcyon 12 Fret 000
A&L Ami
McIlroy A30c
Taylor 610 LTD
Martin DCPA1
Seagull Original
Gretsch White Falcon
Epi LP 60's Tribute Plus (Ebony)
Epi LP 60's Tribute Plus (HC Burst)
Epi Swingster Royale
Gibson LP Trad Pro II
Godin Exit 22
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-29-2015, 03:25 PM
Maryc-k Maryc-k is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: north of Boston
Posts: 1,233
Default

I think Don has some strong feelings about his instruments. He had at least one guitar stolen several years back and offered a reward to get it back (which I believe he did). Replacing it is not as easy as getting Marc to build another.

While they are just "things", they are "our things", and people need to respect that, including the TSA.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-29-2015, 06:36 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Earthly Paradise of Northern California
Posts: 6,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
I read through the responses to Don Ross' post and couldn't find the one you mention, but I did see what I thought a really useful piece of advice from one poster. It won't stop baggage handlers mistreating the case, but it will stop any TSA goons from mistreating the contents.

This will also guarantee that your guitar must be checked at the luggage counter, and cannot be carried on or gate checked. Your case will be opened and guitar inspected while you watch, after you wait at the luggage counter for someone from TSA to be called to do it.
__________________
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."
--Paul Simon

Last edited by Howard Klepper; 08-30-2015 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-29-2015, 06:48 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Florida Space Coast
Posts: 13,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_M View Post
Or maybe just disagrees with those who theorize -- and that's what we're all doing -- that the damage could have occurred without opening the case.
Well, in my experience, it could have.
__________________
Phil

Playing guitar badly since 1964.

Some Taylor guitars.
Three Kala ukuleles (one on tour with the Box Tops).
A 1937 A-style mandolin.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-29-2015, 07:05 PM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 683
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flaggerphil View Post
Well, in my experience, it could have.
Not the same scenario. While I personally wouldn't rule out anything, I tend to think the damage occurred when the instrument was taken out of the case, since the case was indeed opened, as evidenced by the TSA note, and the case isn't a conventional hardshell, rather a $1,500 Kevlar-reinforced carbon fiber flight case with shock suspension.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-30-2015, 08:57 AM
s2y s2y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Somewhere middle America
Posts: 6,594
Default

It sounds like Mr. Ross will get compensated. I cringed. I imagine it was a very nice guitar.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=