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  #46  
Old 08-23-2015, 01:04 PM
state-it state-it is offline
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I didn't cry, but I did wince a little bit.

You never know, his next guitar might be even better.
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  #47  
Old 08-23-2015, 01:46 PM
bitraker bitraker is offline
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somebody made a statement with your guitar - time to sue

okay, so it fell - from what, 5,000 feet? don't think so
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  #48  
Old 08-23-2015, 02:23 PM
BFD BFD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankhond View Post
A guy who imports guitars and knows how customs work explained to me that if they can't get a case open, they just push in a crowbar and force the case open with certain damage to the contents. Could well be the case here.
Based on the assumption that the case was locked:

The damage to the top/side edge looks very consistent with frank's suggestion; and it appears there may be a case crack near the right foot on that side. It definitely looks like a crowbar was jammed into the top right side of the guitar and then pryed or twisted. Maybe they bounced the case off a concrete floor a few time to see if they could break the locks first.

I've never had the opportunity to fly with a guitar, but I know it's foolish to try to lock TSA out of anything. A case this expensive, that will be flown with, should have TSA locks (or not be locked). Bottom line, my guess is that this is not the result of random destruction by TSA or baggage handlers, but a situation where the passenger made it difficult for TSA to do their job. I mean, musicians fly w/instruments all the time folks; this kind of thing is the exception not the rule.
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  #49  
Old 08-23-2015, 04:53 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFD View Post
my guess is that this is not the result of random destruction by TSA or baggage handlers, but a situation where the passenger made it difficult for TSA to do their job. I mean, musicians fly w/instruments all the time folks; this kind of thing is the exception not the rule.
That is assuming that Don locked the case with locks approved or non-approved by airport securities. We really don't know even if you raise a good point. I tend to think that since Don has been a gigging musician for over 25 years and has likely flown for "business" more than any of us on this forum, he knows the ropes and certainly knows what not to do.

One thing that is certain is that there are a lot of people who don't like others to have nice things.
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  #50  
Old 08-23-2015, 05:01 PM
Maryc-k Maryc-k is offline
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Don made a statement on Facebook that the case was opened, hence the TSA notice that it was opened for inspection. He also noted that the strap was no longer in the spot, nor the condition that he stores it in within the case. This led him to believe that the guitar had been taken out of the case. It really looks, from the position and the nature of the damage (there are quite a few pics on his FB page) , that the guitar was dropped or hit on the bottom edge, very close to the binding, which in turn forced the top to compress towards the bridge and the wood to buckle. If the butt of the guitar, near where the endpin/input jack, were damaged I'd say it might have happened in the case, but the damage begins at the binding where the top joins the bottom of the guitar (in the area of the butt-wedge).

Accidents happen, but people need to take accountability for their actions.
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  #51  
Old 08-23-2015, 07:05 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
Given the type of case, and the fact that TSA was involved, I'd say this looks like deliberate maliciousness to me. That kind of damage doesn't happen "accidentally".
Sure it does. It can and does happen when someone is careless without it being on purpose at all. I've had it happen to a guitar of mine.
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  #52  
Old 08-23-2015, 07:21 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
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I don't know if the guitar was taken out of the case or not, or if he had a TSA lock on it or not (personally, there's no way in the world I'd ever check ANYTHING without a TSA lock on it). However, I still say this type of damage can occur when something very heavy is dropped on the case and it bulges down into the guitar. That can easily, unfortunately, happen with checked luggage.

I really doubt any TSA people did something like that on purpose. I really doubt most baggage handlers would do it on purpose, either.

That's not to say that someone didn't do it on purpose, but to say the guitar had to be taken out of the case for that to happen just isn't true. I've had worse damage than that on a guitar that was in a case in a shipping box. It can happen.
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  #53  
Old 08-24-2015, 09:38 AM
Maryc-k Maryc-k is offline
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If you read through Don's FB post you get more of the story.

https://www.facebook.com/donrossmusic?fref=ts
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  #54  
Old 08-24-2015, 10:10 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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I'd bet on that guitar simply being taken out of the case.

It is not a good idea to lock the case simply because if someone wants to inspect it they will break open the case and possibly damage the guitar.

Where it was destroyed deliberately or something heavy fell on it, it shouldn't happen !!!
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  #55  
Old 08-24-2015, 10:46 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flaggerphil View Post
I don't know if the guitar was taken out of the case or not, or if he had a TSA lock on it or not (personally, there's no way in the world I'd ever check ANYTHING without a TSA lock on it). However, I still say this type of damage can occur when something very heavy is dropped on the case and it bulges down into the guitar. That can easily, unfortunately, happen with checked luggage.

I really doubt any TSA people did something like that on purpose. I really doubt most baggage handlers would do it on purpose, either.

That's not to say that someone didn't do it on purpose, but to say the guitar had to be taken out of the case for that to happen just isn't true. I've had worse damage than that on a guitar that was in a case in a shipping box. It can happen.
After landing on an American flight last fall, and waiting to deplane, I watched a baggage handler working alone, launching suitcases one by one from the cargo hold down onto the tarmac. One of them was mine, and it arrived with the roller handle broken. They only approved my claim for a new piece of luggage because I had witnessed the event, was Platinum status, and could leave it with them to be repaired if possible. I don't imagine a guitar, even in a heavy duty case, would have fared so well with that kind of treatment, especially if additional heavy bags were thrown on top of it.

I've had a lot of my luggage opened for TSA inspection. Apparently boxes of crystals and minerals look suspicious on the X-rays. I always pack and tape everything very well. Opened boxes have always been packed back adequately, and sealed again with the official TSA labeled clear tape.

While we will probably never know the exact cause, my first inclination isn't to blame the TSA, unless the case had been locked without a TSA approved lock, and forced open. I think Don's decision to either carry on or gate check his guitars is the best solution. There are just too many ways luggage can be damaged in the system.
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  #56  
Old 08-24-2015, 12:07 PM
cskguitars cskguitars is offline
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It was very clearly dropped on its front edge, even from a few feet on a concrete surface could certainly do this. The force of the impact put upward pressure on the top and shattered the top at the bracing (where there was more resistance). You can see the damage on the bottom bout, especially around the binding and you can see how it continues along towards the upper bout.

Coniferous wood is soft, and does not have the density, grain pattern of hardwood.

Marc will certainly be the one to repair or replace it. Don exclusively plays Beneteaus. Whether or not it would be worth it for him to re-top it will be the question, though I suspect it will. Will it sound the same, most definitely not. The finishing will be the tougher thing to blend, unless he strips it and starts from scratch.

Perhaps this guitar should just go to a museum as is and Marc can build him a new one.
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  #57  
Old 08-24-2015, 01:21 PM
jpjr50 jpjr50 is offline
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I was watching "Rig Rundown" on YouTube like I do every night and John 5 buys a plane ticket for his guitar so it sits next to him on every flight. If you love your guitar that much and you use it for your lively hood than you should pay up the extra cash.

My Martin is nowhere near the caliber of a real genuine Martin but I had a hard time taking it on vacation with me as I didn't want it to get damaged.
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  #58  
Old 08-24-2015, 01:51 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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I hate to see a guitar damaged like that. I hope Don Ross is treated fairly.

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  #59  
Old 08-24-2015, 02:01 PM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Howell View Post
I'd bet on that guitar simply being taken out of the case.
+1. And as someone else posited earlier, maybe it was reclosed improperly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjr50 View Post
I was watching "Rig Rundown" on YouTube like I do every night and John 5 buys a plane ticket for his guitar so it sits next to him on every flight. If you love your guitar that much and you use it for your lively hood than you should pay up the extra cash.
I think buying a ~$1,000 case is a reasonable precaution. Buying your guitar a plane ticket is a rock-star move, not a working-musician move.
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  #60  
Old 08-26-2015, 05:06 PM
jazzd jazzd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_M View Post
+1. And as someone else posited earlier, maybe it was reclosed improperly.



I think buying a ~$1,000 case is a reasonable precaution. Buying your guitar a plane ticket is a rock-star move, not a working-musician move.
Yep. No way it cracked that badly in that case. Instruments could survive re-entry in those things...

Also a TSA note was left in the case, so it was clearly opened:
"Dear Sir,
Oops!
F U,
TSA."

Sounds like he'll be getting his claim processed though and eventually compensated .

Meantime I'd be very surprised if he didn't have that guitar insured. It should all be alright.
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