about to give up on my Martin :(

[Arapaho G]

Set up, set up, set up. I finger pick, like the action low. Made a huge difference in my HD28.

[AndUandI]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

IMO 11’s are too light. I would use 12’s on a 00. I have 12’s on my 000 and my OM. I use 13’s on my dreads, archtop and resonator. I also like round core strings which are said to feel like they have lower tension - I just don’t notice that kind of thing with my hands and fingers.

Of course heavier strings will raise the action. I personally prefer about 2.0 - 2.5 mm (~.09”) on the low E at the 12th fret.

“Giving up” on a guitar without first at least trying different strings and a setup doesn’t make any sense to me.

Im on top of the .09 on the low with my gauge and at .090 on the High E

If I had to guess .. the nut is too high..
Ive reached out to several places and only one responded and they said $90 for a setup if I buy bring a new set of strings..

[TheGITM]

Without knowing anything about the guitar's age or history it's tough to say what may need adjusting, but in general here's the list of things to be reviewed and possibly adjusted:

Neck relief and geometry to bridge
Nut height and string spacing
Saddle height and compensation
Fret height and condition

It's important that whoever does the work follows a systematic process that identifies issues in the proper order so they can be addressed completely and correctly.

While a straight setup fee can be in the $70-$100 range, there may be additional cost to address other issues that may be identified.

[Br1ck]

With .011s you are leaving a lot of tone in the guitar. A luthier who can do good fretwork along with the setup can get you a flat neck, little relief, and low action. A fret level and crown works wonders. I'm not a fan of the typical Taylor setup. Favors ease of play over tone. They do sell an awful lot of guitars with it.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

With .011s you are leaving a lot of tone in the guitar. A luthier who can do good fretwork along with the setup can get you a flat neck, little relief, and low action. A fret level and crown works wonders. I'm not a fan of the typical Taylor setup. Favors ease of play over tone. They do sell an awful lot of guitars with it.

What a great expression!

[j38guitar]

I will agree with everyone else. Get a setup. I have played Martins with horrible action and very hard to play.

[Gress]

Originally Posted by AndUandI

there is no doubt the guitar sounds great.. but I feel like my cheap hondo and my taylor's I had all played so much easier. Im not sure if its the 1 3/4 nut or the fact the my string height at 12th is .090. What string height is normal for a Martin 00-18? I've thought about finding a guitar tech in the Cleveland area but nothing really ever comes up. I had one guy recommended but was flakey hard to get a time etc.. Any suggestions? do I just move on? I have 11-52's strings on it now.. thanks

Here is what I believe is Martin spec:
Martin guitars typically have an action height of 4/32" to 5/64" at the bass E-12th fret, and very little neck relief. The factory considers a low 'E' bass string to be within specification if the distance from the 12th fret to the bottom of the low E string is between 2.38 mm (3/32″) minimum, to 2.78 mm (7/64″) maximum. The high 'e' treble string should measure between 1.59 mm (1/16″) and 1.98 mm (5/64″) at the maximum.

If you are at .09, you aren't too high (actually, I think in a good place slightly below 3/32").

If desired, you most likely will be able to lower it without buzzing by the relief adjustment with the truss rod.

If not, the next step would be filing the saddle down very lightly, which is easy to do.

However, as the strings are low enough and you using 11s, perhaps it's the neck shape more than the action height.

[Jimbo00]

Since I do my own set up, I've always found there is always a little more that can filed down for nut &/or saddles. to get the string action lower. the Ovation Applause has been my learning tool and it's a work in progress to have gotten it to where it is today. It played decent, but with taking it a little more with each successive phase, it's as low action and playable as any of my electrics at this point. I was conservative, would play it for a while until I was brave enough to file away a little more. Eventually, it's at a point where I will say it's finally done right. My biggest fear was ruining it obviously. Set up approach, I went and bought a spare saddle, the nut was cut fine for the first frets. So with my $ 10 delivered CP-100 intonated saddle part, I had a spare that I was free to freelance and fix or screw up the original saddle part hat is now 13 years old. I did a solid job, I now have a spare saddle part that I probably won't ever use. But hey, $ 10 was a good insurance part to always be able to start over, even put it back to where it was.

The Ovation CP-100 is also the same part Takamine uses for some of their acoustic guitars. The piezo pickup is it's own little assembly that I wasn't going to modify. I had 3 options really. Remove the wooden bridge & hope I sanded enough off the bottom of that. Option 2, route out the saddle slot so the piezo pickup was lower. Both those options were too much labor. The 3rd option was channel & slot the $ 10 saddle part like a nut, while maintaining the intonated ridge of the saddle part by filing it way & out. That was the cheapest & easiest way to go. And it worked out better than I ever expected. I was able to correct string spacing, alignments and the guitar has never intonated better than it did since I bought it. And it's as playable as any electric guitar I've ever set low action for now too. It may not look pretty, but it's functionally better than it ever has been.

I'd stick with it & get it set up properly, that's a high dollar instrument. My Ovation was a $ 175, $ 300 with a hard case I bought later as a preowned. End of the day, it's an weekend outdoorsman campfire guitar that does quite well in a studio & live performances.

[Iain1231]

Originally Posted by AndUandI

there is no doubt the guitar sounds great.. but I feel like my cheap hondo and my taylor's I had all played so much easier. Im not sure if its the 1 3/4 nut or the fact the my string height at 12th is .090. What string height is normal for a Martin 00-18? I've thought about finding a guitar tech in the Cleveland area but nothing really ever comes up. I had one guy recommended but was flakey hard to get a time etc.. Any suggestions? do I just move on? I have 11-52's strings on it now.. thanks

Before you give up,
1. Grab some sandpaper and try sanding down the saddle. Would recommend getting a new bone saddle for this purpose. You may align the new saddle to the original and have a small pencil to mark out the bottoms of the original on the new saddle. You will have to sand till that line is gone.

Next you can continue sanding about 10-20 % more and have it placed in the guitar and tune it. Give it a test if it's better. If it's still too hard to play, detune and destring and sand down 5% more with a lighter grit sandpaper.


2. You can Switch to Elixirs 80/20 as they are lower tension and easier on the fingers. Elixirs have lower tension for the same gauge and should theoretically be easier. I've switched and it is definitely easier to play than Martin strings. Sound wise is subjective but i think it sounds better than Martin strings, what's more important is comfort of playing

3. you can adjust truss rod if necessary to lower action.

4. Get the bridge slotted. Slotting helps increase the break angle at the saddle, allowing your saddle to sit lower.

I wouldn't touch the nut and would prefer to send it to someone who knows how to file it.

If all else fails, I guess you can move to a 3/4 sized guitar as it would be just as loud and sound better with a higher guage strings at the same tension as your full sized guitar with 11s. My GS mini / 000jr makes a compelling case.

[Guitars44me]

Originally Posted by Coler

Yes that's as light as i would go.

A few years back faced with a similar issue regarding availability of good techs in my immediate area I decided to teach myself how to do the basic set up.

I found this link very useful:

https://acousticguitar.com/know-your...-guitar-setup/

I also watched various youtube vidoes.

I bought a jig for shaving the saddle, some sandpaper, some nut files, some feeler gauges, a good ruler/straightedge, truss rod wrenches.

I practiced on a guitar I was comfortable with learning on first, over the course of a couple of weeks, observing the effect in particular of truss rod adjustments and letting the guitar settle down after making an adjustment.

I am happy to say I can attend to my own set-up needs now and the saving in time bringing guitars to-and-fro and payments to techs (with 5 guitars at home) has more than made up the outlay on some tools/equipment.

Also it was a lot less difficult than I thought it would be, I enjoyed learning how to do it, I can do a set-up at my own convenience - including little tweaks if I change string gauge or want to make seasonal adjustments or want to adjust the set up to favour a certain kind of playing.

And I enjoy doing the set-up too. So overall, win-win-win-win. I recommend it.

I am fortunate to have a couple world class techs I can take mine to, but I am still tempted to get the tools and see how close I can get by myself.

BTW, AGF Sponsor Music Nomad just announced a give away of some nice tool sets to celebrate 12 fun years as an AGF sponsor!

I signed up.

Still, the OP and most anyone serious about guitar would probably benefit from a good relationship with a really competent guitar tech.

Think of it like this. You wouldn’t buy a Lamborghini and take it straight to the track. You would take it to your race mechanic to get it set up to your preferences.

Same thing with a race guitar! Want maximum tone and maximum ease of playing at the same time? That’s pretty difficult but you can get close…

Cheers

Paul.

[Guitars44me]

Originally Posted by Iain1231

Before you give up,
1. Grab some sandpaper and try sanding down the saddle. Would recommend getting a new bone saddle for this purpose. You may align the new saddle to the original and have a small pencil to mark out the bottoms of the original on the new saddle. You will have to sand till that line is gone.

Next you can continue sanding about 10-20 % more and have it placed in the guitar and tune it. Give it a test if it's better. If it's still too hard to play, detune and destring and sand down 5% more with a lighter grit sandpaper.


2. You can Switch to Elixirs 80/20 as they are lower tension and easier on the fingers. Elixirs have lower tension for the same gauge and should theoretically be easier. I've switched and it is definitely easier to play than Martin strings. Sound wise is subjective but i think it sounds better than Martin strings, what's more important is comfort of playing

3. you can adjust truss rod if necessary to lower action.

4. Get the bridge slotted. Slotting helps increase the break angle at the saddle, allowing your saddle to sit lower.

I wouldn't touch the nut and would prefer to send it to someone who knows how to file it.

If all else fails, I guess you can move to a 3/4 sized guitar as it would be just as loud and sound better with a higher guage strings at the same tension as your full sized guitar with 11s. My GS mini / 000jr makes a compelling case.

Before you do the above, make sure your guitar and case are both at about 45% RH, which is what it was at when built, from woods at 45% RH…

Otherwise you won’t know if your are helping or not!

I would want the nut adjustment FIRST. But AFTER the geometry is correct!

Don’t give up on a nice Martin!

Paul

[CharlieBman]

I'm betting your nut is slotted too high. Every guitar I own has need the nut slots filed. Made a huge difference. They typically come from the manufacturer slotted on the high side. I assume it's just easier that way because frankly, getting nut slots filed optimally can be a pain. Just make sure you take it to someone who knows what they are doing. Good luck!

[AndUandI]

Originally Posted by Gress

Here is what I believe is Martin spec:
Martin guitars typically have an action height of 4/32" to 5/64" at the bass E-12th fret, and very little neck relief. The factory considers a low 'E' bass string to be within specification if the distance from the 12th fret to the bottom of the low E string is between 2.38 mm (3/32″) minimum, to 2.78 mm (7/64″) maximum. The high 'e' treble string should measure between 1.59 mm (1/16″) and 1.98 mm (5/64″) at the maximum.

If you are at .09, you aren't too high (actually, I think in a good place slightly below 3/32").

If desired, you most likely will be able to lower it without buzzing by the relief adjustment with the truss rod.

If not, the next step would be filing the saddle down very lightly, which is easy to do.

However, as the strings are low enough and you using 11s, perhaps it's the neck shape more than the action height.

that is what im thinking.. it might just be the neck shape.. for instance I could buzz around on the other guitar and play "The Clap" relatively easily .. not completely correct.. but my hands would not get fatigued.. on this guitar.. some stuff I just cant do . I play a mix of finger picking and lead lines etc.. and its just not working..

Ive reached out to 3 or 4 techs in cleveland.. and only one response.. smh

[AndUandI]

Originally Posted by Iain1231

Before you give up,
1. Grab some sandpaper and try sanding down the saddle. Would recommend getting a new bone saddle for this purpose. You may align the new saddle to the original and have a small pencil to mark out the bottoms of the original on the new saddle. You will have to sand till that line is gone.

Next you can continue sanding about 10-20 % more and have it placed in the guitar and tune it. Give it a test if it's better. If it's still too hard to play, detune and destring and sand down 5% more with a lighter grit sandpaper.


2. You can Switch to Elixirs 80/20 as they are lower tension and easier on the fingers. Elixirs have lower tension for the same gauge and should theoretically be easier. I've switched and it is definitely easier to play than Martin strings. Sound wise is subjective but i think it sounds better than Martin strings, what's more important is comfort of playing

3. you can adjust truss rod if necessary to lower action.

4. Get the bridge slotted. Slotting helps increase the break angle at the saddle, allowing your saddle to sit lower.

I wouldn't touch the nut and would prefer to send it to someone who knows how to file it.

If all else fails, I guess you can move to a 3/4 sized guitar as it would be just as loud and sound better with a higher guage strings at the same tension as your full sized guitar with 11s. My GS mini / 000jr makes a compelling case.

Ive had a couple mini's and for my style playing (and I have smaller hands) they were cramped
I've already done the saddle thing

[AndUandI]

Originally Posted by CharlieBman

I'm betting your nut is slotted too high. Every guitar I own has need the nut slots filed. Made a huge difference. They typically come from the manufacturer slotted on the high side. I assume it's just easier that way because frankly, getting nut slots filed optimally can be a pain. Just make sure you take it to someone who knows what they are doing. Good luck!

I def feel like they are high.. I seem to be a lot of space when I push down on the first fret

also.. just an observation.. if I put a cap on the first fret.. seems a lot easier to play