#31
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Like you posted, it is stated on the warranty that you pay the shipping costs. So the moral and ethical issue would be on you.
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All of my guitars are rescues. '85 Gibson J30e '75 Ovation Balladeer '99 HD28V '99 Gibson WM-00 '75 Takamine "guild" Jumbo '46 Harmony Silvertone H700 '12 GS-Mini '?? Epiphone Dr-212 CSU Rams |
#32
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some companies step up. Fender Custom Shop payed for my shipping to them and back. It was expedited shipping as well.
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#33
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Tom Miller |
#34
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I think they charge shipping because they can. From their perspective, it ups the ante for a warranty claim. You have to cross a certain threshold of dissatisfaction to be willing to shell out to ship a guitar for warranty work. If the companies didn't do this, they might wind up with more warranty claims and thus higher operating expenses, which would be passed on to the buyers.
I recently bought a king-size mattress from Costco. Although they don't have their own delivery service, they paid a shipper to deliver it and put it in place. If I wanted to return it, they'd accept it no questions asked and they would pay to have it picked up. But they're more the exception than the rule. Also, I suspect that the mattress business is a lot more competitive than the guitar business, so they have to go the extra mile. Apparently, guitar companies don't have to pay for returns to be shipped in order to sell their products.
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Bob DeVellis |
#35
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I did pay the shipping and I'll pay the return, I just question the fairness of that given that the guitar was probably defective from the factory. It's a fine instrument in every way and I would have paid for the repair too, although I knew it wasn't my fault. I wouldn't like it, but I'd live with it.
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Tom Miller |
#36
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Interesting answers so far.
I just wonder how the ones that think it's OK to charge shipping would feel if it was their guitar and they were going to be out some $180 for shipping on a warranty repair for a $5000 retail guitar. And before we go in circles, I bought it knowing the warranty, knowing the company's policy and reputation, and knowing how much it costs to ship a guitar across the country. Like most owners though, I never expected to have to send it back.
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Tom Miller |
#37
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[QUOTE=devellis;4105882]I think they charge shipping because they can. From their perspective, it ups the ante for a warranty claim. You have to cross a certain threshold of dissatisfaction to be willing to shell out to ship a guitar for warranty work.
QUOTE] There it is. Best answer so far in my honest opinion.
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Tom Miller |
#38
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I think that maybe you don't understand or don't relate to business. Taylor makes 100k or more guitars a year. I'm sure they get many claims every day. Imagine if they decided to reimburse people for shipping. There would be guitars shipped to San Diego and then deemed to be not covered by warranty. The forums would be full of people complaining that they're not paying $100 or whatever to have their broken 114 shipped back to them. Instead its just people complaining about what is plainly written on the warranty and something that is maybe 50/50 on whether people agree with you or not.
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All of my guitars are rescues. '85 Gibson J30e '75 Ovation Balladeer '99 HD28V '99 Gibson WM-00 '75 Takamine "guild" Jumbo '46 Harmony Silvertone H700 '12 GS-Mini '?? Epiphone Dr-212 CSU Rams |
#39
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In the industry I am in, the majority of times when you pay the shipping to send goods back for warranty service, if it is indeed a warranty issue the manufacturer will pay the shipping back to you. That's just good customer service.
If a manufacturer's warranty issues are so much that shipping costs to return to the customer will cause a big enough decline in their bottom line to have to increase prices, they have bigger problems on their hands. That being said, if a new instrument is purchased on-line how would the authorized repair depot/dealer feel about working on it? Granted they would (should) be reimbursed by the manufacturer for the warranty repair, but may feel somewhat slighted since they did not sell the instrument. I won't go so far as to say that they would do an inferior job but thankfully I have not had to use the warranty on my instruments even though they were bought from a local shop.
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"Marteenie" 1975 Norman B-20 2012 Seagull Maritime SWS Creme Brule CW GT QI 2014 Taylor 150e |
#40
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Tom Miller |
#41
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"I can't accept the cost factor being the problem since surely the return rate for warranty repair doesn't exceed 1 in 50 guitars. At that rate a price increase of $3 would cover shipping on warranties so it can't be the money. Even if they got back one in 20 guitars for warranty it would only add about $7 to the price of an instrument. "
According to a former Martin head of the warranty and repair dept...(recently retired) up to 50% of Martins are showing defects. His words, not mine. A company's warranty expenses are packed into the sale price of ever product sold, equal distribution of expenses to all units, whether they fail or not. Here is a little story. Received defective guitar, called seller, ca;lled Martin. Both said play it, it might improve.. what a back crack on day one and a neck set inclrrectly. I sucked up their pablum. When it got worse after two weeks, I called again. They said , had I not played the guitar they would have sent a UPOS call tag and picked it up no charge. I advised it was them that told me to play it, thus causing me the shipping expense to Nazareth.. about $200 on a new guitar with defects rightr out of the box. While they were diddling around botching repairs and lying to me.. I received my second custom Martin.. it was obviously defective without even removing it form its case. I remembered what they told me and called the dealer and Martin.. They did send a call tag and the guitar was returned.. turns out so defective could not be repaired and they advised me it was destroyed and another would take 11 months. no thanks.. refund please as I am still waiting for a resolution on the first defective guitar still in their possession. Morals and contracts have little to do with one another.. as to warranties being a moral issue.. I'll debate that anytime. In 25 years in the auto biz I have seen more attempted fraud by customers against auto makers than the reverse. I have been making products self employed for many years. I have had two legitimate claims and dealt with it at zero expense to anyone but myself.. but, I have had two dealers and a dozen customers attempt to claim warranty defect in spite of obvious customer induced damage. |
#42
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I have posted lengthy dissertations here and on the UMGF and spoken with Martin Corp and a couple other large instrument makers with my ideas about warranties that would be pioneering in the instrument biz and increase sales and desirability of product, improve customer service and lower warranty expenses... to no avail.
Maufacturers continue to foist the "lifetime limited warranty" on the public which essentially reads.. "our way". Note that Martin got rid of the "lifetime warranty" long ago and went to the "limited lifetime warranty" In house they had made another decision to limit neck resets to 20 years.. this was direct to me by phone from one of the last warranty and repair and customer service managers at Martin ( reassigned due to continued overwhelmingness and inability to get it all sorted) No where is it in writing that the lifetime limited means twenty years,, and for those who bought their Martins when they were still offering the "lifetime warranty"... much as with the OP's situation.. the lifetime warranty was part of a contract between the maker and seller and cannot be re written or nullified. It's a contract. |
#43
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I'm sure they get guitars every day that are dried out, scuffed up, dropped, filed down and adjusted out of tolerance, with owners that demand they pay shipping and fix it for free. That's just not the case here. I've never even suggested to them that they pay shipping, nor argued for free services, etc. I just think it's an unfair policy that could/should be changed.
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Tom Miller |
#44
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[QUOTE=bohemian;4105948
According to a former Martin head of the warranty and repair dept...(recently retired) up to 50% of Martins are showing defects. His words, not mine. Morals and contracts have little to do with one another.. as to warranties being a moral issue.. I'll debate that anytime. .[/QUOTE] That's amazing that they would have that high of a rate of defects. Warranties are based upon moral concepts. Debate away.
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Tom Miller |
#45
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I suspect that differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Taylor has quite a few regional authorized repair luthiers that can do warranty work. My authorized warranty repair shop is 200 miles from where I live. When I had a potential minor warranty issue (the Taylor rep talked me through how to make the repair myself) on one of my guitars, the person I spoke with on the phone even recommended a local, non-authorized luthier who has a national reputation. Every company approaches things differently. |