$3,000 for Martin, Taylor or Furch

[Silly Moustache]

Hej Sven. I will not tell you what you should buy.
That is your decision only.

I know Martins. That would be my choice but tere are good ones and not so good, and if you are in Europe/Scandinavia you might not get he full Martin warranty. (Some US brands transfer warranty responsibility to the dealer - I had that issue with Huss & Dalton).

However -a new or good condition Martin, is often the pinnacle of many guitarists aspirations, so if you can find a good one - buy it. I did ...a number of times, until I discovered Collings.

[jp2558]

You want a Martin so get it now. Once I got one I started asking myself why I waited so long.

[sinistral]

I would echo the recommendations to try a bunch of guitars first to find what suits your playing style. I have a D-28 and a Taylor 614 (and a HD-28 and a 000-18, fwiw), but if I could only keep one, it would probably be the 000. Martin dreadnoughts are awesome guitars with a big, deep, growly sound, but for me the shorter scale and lighter strings of the 000 size are more versatile for different playing styles (esp. fingerstyle), and are more comfortable. In the $3k price range, I would add a 000-28 or OM to your list (or the 000-18, but it seems you are more focused on guitars with rosewood back and sides).

[Sven of Dolphin]

Thanks all. Think I’m going to go with the Furch Yellow Cedar/Rosewood. Hopefully it holds up to some strumming!

Do these things ever go on sale new? Black Friday deals?

[wisedennis]

oh wow,

Thanks for the info.. will def think twice before spending top money on a Furch..

Originally Posted by stillsteven

This.

Not trying to discredit Furch, but I’ll share because not many people are aware of it. Furch uses a different fretboard ebony species (Diospyros ebenum/Ceylon ebony - less desirable due to lower hardness) than what Martin, Taylor and other makers have been using for a long time (Diospyros crassiflora/Gaboon ebony). Also african mahogany (Khaya) neck even on their high end models. Typical cost-cutting measures but doing it on their high end models is beyond comprehension imo. At least in the present day, Martin (40 series up) and Taylor (300 series up) don’t go down this path.

But again sound and playability should be the top priority. The rest, we as buyers should at least know what we pay for.

[Ed66]

Originally Posted by stillsteven

This.

Not trying to discredit Furch, but I’ll share because not many people are aware of it. Furch uses a different fretboard ebony species (Diospyros ebenum/Ceylon ebony - less desirable due to lower hardness) than what Martin, Taylor and other makers have been using for a long time (Diospyros crassiflora/Gaboon ebony). Also african mahogany (Khaya) neck even on their high end models. Typical cost-cutting measures but doing it on their high end models is beyond comprehension imo. At least in the present day, Martin (40 series up) and Taylor (300 series up) don’t go down this path.

But again sound and playability should be the top priority. The rest, we as buyers should at least know what we pay for.

I've got to say I've noticed no negative impact from this from Furch and this is from owning three different models over a five year period. The differential on hardness is absolutely minimal and really should not enter into the equation at all. Taylor and Martin both make their sacrifices on less than top of the line guitars, as do all manufacturers. A bit of a red herring if you will. So play what you can of each and make your decision on tone.

[stillsteven]

Originally Posted by Ed66

I've got to say I've noticed no negative impact from this from Furch and this is from owning three different models over a five year period. The differential on hardness is absolutely minimal and really should not enter into the equation at all. Taylor and Martin both make their sacrifices on less than top of the line guitars, as do all manufacturers. A bit of a red herring if you will. So play what you can of each and make your decision on tone.

Ceylon ebony fretboard is slightly softer than rosewood fretboard but they are on the same ballpark. Both are not nearly as hard as Gaboon ebony and more prone to developing divots, chips, scratches after some time. While I agree it may not affect some players, I think 5 years isn’t long enough for anyone to disregard this as “red herring” considering surface damages mentioned earlier usually take longer to develop. I have a guitar with rosewood fretboard that has been played regularly for 18 years without showing these surface damages, so Furch fretboard would be just fine for me and I would probably own a Furch in the future. But I know a lot of people who play harder than I do. Having a Gaboon ebony fretboard that has been the gold standard for many years just give players one less thing to worry about in terms of longterm durability. Especially if they plan to keep their guitar for a long time. That said, it shouldn’t affect the tone in any way. My goal is not to discourage OP or anyone from buying a Furch guitar, I just want to share information that I found so they can make an informed decision when buying such guitars.

[Cypress Knee]

You probably cannot go wrong with a D-28 as your next step up guitar. It could be standard, HD, Re-imagined, Marquis, or whatever. Most of them are fine guitars.

That gives you time to figure out your next step. I have a Collings OM, a Martin 000-28, and a Martin Grand Jumbo as well as a Martin Custom Shop Jumbo.. (I used to have Guild Grand Jumbos but gave them up due to fingerboard sizing issues.)

For Americana/Country/blugrass I like my dred.

For miscellaneous strumming/picking other genres I like the Grand Jumbo.

For pure fingerpicking the Collings OM is best.

For strumming, fills, leads, and fingerpicking across a variety of styles the 000-28 is works best for me.

[SalFromChatham]

I don’t think you can go wrong with the Martin Reimagined D28. Yet at the same time I agree with other here that you should try different guitars and forget the brand. For example you might like a Taylor 327, or a 514ce with red cedar top.

You mentioned liking cedar tops, which is kind of the opposite of a D28 cannon; that’s why you should try out more guitars and brand families.

I recently found myself shocked by how good the “lowly” Taylor American Dream guitars sound. And I might never have known, as all I ever would play at shops were from Nazareth or Bozeman.

[stillsteven]

Originally Posted by SalFromChatham

And I might never have known, as all I ever would play at shops were from Nazareth or Bozeman.

I followed the list to Bozeman, El Cajon, Nazareth, Lewiston. It says Austin is next

To OP, trying different guitars and figuring out what fits you is part of the fun.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by Sven of Dolphin

Thanks all. Think I’m going to go with the Furch Yellow Cedar/Rosewood. Hopefully it holds up to some strumming!

Do these things ever go on sale new? Black Friday deals?

If it's in stock you may want to consider getting it now given how difficult it has been to get some guitars over the past year. You could ask the retailer if they're going to have Black Friday sale.

[mawmow]

I would go for the Taylor for one future event :
Neck reset will be easily made on the bolted neck.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Sven of Dolphin

Thanks all. Think I’m going to go with the Furch Yellow Cedar/Rosewood. Hopefully it holds up to some strumming!

Do these things ever go on sale new? Black Friday deals?

I checked out some video demos of the Furch GA in cedar/rosewood and it is a lovely guitar. While it’s hard to get a true sense of a guitar from a YouTube video, it does seem closer in character to the Taylor you we’re considering than the Martin. It’s also likely to be more responsive than he D-28 for fingerstyle. Otoh, the the D-28 may handle heavy picking and strumming better.

A guitar you might want to check out that has the responsiveness of a GA but has the deep bass—if not deeper—of a dreadnought is the Taylor 618. It’s a big guitar, bigger than the ones you are looking it. I demo’d one of the new models in a store recently, and the videos of it online don’t do it justice.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by stillsteven

This.

Not trying to discredit Furch, but I’ll share because not many people are aware of it. Furch uses a different fretboard ebony species (Diospyros ebenum/Ceylon ebony - less desirable due to lower hardness) than what Martin, Taylor and other makers have been using for a long time (Diospyros crassiflora/Gaboon ebony). Also african mahogany (Khaya) neck even on their high end models. Typical cost-cutting measures but doing it on their high end models is beyond comprehension imo. At least in the present day, Martin (40 series up) and Taylor (300 series up) don’t go down this path.

But again sound and playability should be the top priority. The rest, we as buyers should at least know what we pay for.

I'm curious as to the price differences of the ebony used as compared to Martin and Taylor. Is it really a material difference in cost? Probably not. What cost saving techniques do Martin and Taylor use that Furch doesn't? If you mention one side, you have to discuss the other sides as well.

We try to avoid brand bashing here.

[stillsteven]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm curious as to the price differences of the ebony used as compared to Martin and Taylor. Is it really a material difference in cost? Probably not.

I’m sure most players don’t care about the cost of the material. What’s important for a fretboard is that it serves its purpose resisting surface damage since it’s part of a guitar that get “abused” the most by our fingernails. There are reasons fretboard is made out of harder woods (ebonies, rosewoods). In this case, Ceylon ebony has less desirable characteristics (lower hardness than even EIR) to serve its purpose well RELATIVE to ebony other manufacturers use. If you do care about the material cost, I’m afraid I can’t give you the answer because I’m not buying or selling woods for a living. All I know we can’t afford to pick and choose jet black Gaboon ebony anymore while most Ceylon ebony on the market still has that jet black appearance. That could indicate the amount of supply of these woods and therefore the material cost difference.

Originally Posted by TBman

What cost saving techniques do Martin and Taylor use that Furch doesn't? If you mention one side, you have to discuss the other sides as well.

We try to avoid brand bashing here.

I’m comparing only high end offerings from Furch, Martin, Taylor because that is what the OP specified. The title of this thread alone should give you that idea. I should probably add for $3000 usually you get “select hardwood” neck from Martin. Aside from that, Martin uses Gaboon ebony while Taylor still give you Honduran mahogany/Gaboon ebony combo at that price. There are reasons too why these combo have been around longer than most of us have lived. If you want to talk about lower priced models and their cost cutting measures, last time I checked you can start a new thread rather easily.

Originally Posted by stillsteven

Not trying to discredit Furch, but I’ll share because not many people are aware of it.

Originally Posted by stillsteven

But again sound and playability should be the top priority. The rest, we as buyers should at least know what we pay for.

Originally Posted by stillsteven

I have a guitar with rosewood fretboard that has been played regularly for 18 years without showing these surface damages, so Furch fretboard would be just fine for me and I would probably own a Furch in the future.

Originally Posted by stillsteven

That said, it shouldn’t affect the tone in any way. My goal is not to discourage OP or anyone from buying a Furch guitar, I just want to share information that I found so they can make an informed decision when buying such guitars.

If you think I’m brand bashing I will give you the benefit of the doubt maybe you didn’t read the whole thing, I’m quite sure others know I’m just sharing information that I found so we can learn from each other. That is the purpose why this forum exists, isn’t it? I understand it doesn’t feel good if someone points out a less desirable thing about our beloved guitar. Most of us experience that at some point. But I think it’s important we’re being objective especially if we want to help and share unbiased information to those who are new into acoustic guitars.