Wondering whether I should buy a Sigma DT-28H or Yamaha FG830?

[not_elliotsmith]

Firstly, apologies for the long post!

So I want to buy a new acoustic guitar for between 500 and 1000 Euros that has a solid wood top and I tried a few guitars in my local music shop a couple of weeks ago. I tried a Yamaha FG800(they didn't have the FG830 in stock), a Martin D-X1E and a Guild D-240E.
I didn't like the FG800 because I found it difficult to actually play it. I believe the action was a bit high. I found it to be much easier to play the Guild and D-X1E. I really like the look of Martin guitars also.

So after doing a ton of research on Martin guitars(their X-series and Road series). For some reason Martin guitars are priced significantly higher here in Ireland than they are in America. For example a Martin D-X2E costs 750 Euros both in Ireland and the UK. Although the top of this guitar is solid spruce, the backs and sides are made of HPL (a plastic/wood composite material) which I think is unacceptable for a guitar of this price to be honest. The model costs 600 USD on Martin's website which is the equivalent of 515 Euros. So it's 235 Euros more expensive here in Ireland than in the States. Another option would be to buy a Martin D10E but it costs 1000 Euros here whereas it costs 730 Euros approximately in the US.

So after a lot of research I came across the Sigma DT-28H which is basically a copy of a Martin D-28 that has a solid sitka spruce and laminated tilia back and sides. Here is a video of a guy playing the Sigma along with two actual D-28 models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwFk...9A%B4%EB%93%9C
Am I right in saying that the Sigma sounds really good considering it costs 450 Euros and the other two guitars costs 3000 Euros approx? My other option is to get a Yamaha FG830 which lots of people have told me is one of the best value guitars available on the market. As mentioned I didn't like the FG800 so I would hope that the FG830 would be better considering it costs almost 200 Euros more.

I'm wondering can someone give me their opinion on which guitar I should go for? I'll have to order these guitars online as I can't get them locally. By the way I was hoping to install either a K&K Mini or an Anthem pick-up inside of the guitar at some stage.

Any helpful information would be much appreciated!

Kind regards

[Rogerblair]

That particular Yamaha model (830) is superb. They need a setup to achieve the playability you want, but they’re great instruments. I’d consider the Guild next in line.

Rb

[columbia]

The Sigma sounds good to me. I've played some of the AMI Sigmas and they were very nice for the price. I think they have 1 3/4" nuts for what it's worth.

The FG-830 is essentially the same as a FG-800 from a playability perspective. You have to get it set up, and you might just not like the thin neck profile and 1 11/16" nut.

[not_elliotsmith]

Originally Posted by Rogerblair

That particular Yamaha model (830) is superb. They need a setup to achieve the playability you want, but they’re great instruments. I’d consider the Guild next in line.

Rb

Okay I understand I might have to get it set up to get it to play well.

Just wondering do you have a low opinion on the Sigma guitar I mentioned in my post considering you didn't talk about it?

[not_elliotsmith]

Originally Posted by columbia

The Sigma sounds good to me. I've played some of the AMI Sigmas and they were very nice for the price. I think they have 1 3/4" nuts for what it's worth.

The FG-830 is essentially the same as a FG-800 from a playability perspective. You have to get it set up, and you might just not like the thin neck profile and 1 11/16" nut.

I just found it hard to play the FG800 when I was in the shop a couple of weeks ago. I tried to play "Blackbird" and a few other Beatle's acoustic songs such as "Mother Nature's Son" etc and I kept making these mistakes that I would never make with my other guitars.

I then played the Guild and the Martin and it was way easier to play those songs on those guitars. I don't know if this is down solely to the fact that the FG800 needed to be set up better before hand or whether it's just the way it's made. I'm hoping that the FG830 would be built better. Everyone keeps saying how good it is.

I have quite small delicate hands so wouldn't a thin neck profile be more suitable for me?

I'm curious to know whether you felt that the AMI Sigma guitars felt pretty much the same as the Martin's you played? Did they have the same playability? It seems to good to be true that they're so cheap compared to the Martins...

[columbia]

Originally Posted by not_elliotsmith

I just found it hard to play the FG800 when I was in the shop a couple of weeks ago. I tried to play "Blackbird" and a few other Beatle's acoustic songs such as "Mother Nature's Son" etc and I kept making these mistakes that I would never make with my other guitars.

I then played the Guild and the Martin and it was way easier to play those songs on those guitars. I don't know if this is down solely to the fact that the FG800 needed to be set up better before hand or whether it's just the way it's made. I'm hoping that the FG830 would be built better. Everyone keeps saying how good it is.

I have quite small delicate hands so wouldn't a thin neck profile be more suitable for me?

I'm curious to know whether you felt that the AMI Sigma guitars felt pretty much the same as the Martin's you played? Did they have the same playability? It seems to good to be true that they're so cheap compared to the Martins...

I think the main differences between the FG800 and FG830 are cosmetic (binding) and back and sides laminate.

Preferred neck shape is very personal. I don't do a lot of fingerstyle playing, but often people who do prefer wider nuts.

Playability can usually be tweaked by setup, not so much a function of any one guitar. The AMI/Sigmas I've played have been very playable. I might slightly prefer the neck profile on the newer Martins, but personally (and this is a minority view here) I like thinner profile necks and 1 11/16" nuts, like the pre-2012 Martin D-18 and pre-2017 D-28.

I don't think AMI guitars are quite as common in the US as elsewhere (some of the better comparison videos are in French, I notice) so I don't know how many people on AGF have played them, but I think they might be the most faithful, from a sound and appearance perspective, copies of the Martin standard series among the import lines.

[columbia]

And I forgot to note that Sigma has had many incarnations here the in US since the 1970s(?), so sometimes when someone asks about them they'll get responses regarding totally unrelated guitars.

[koolimy]

I wonder if the shop you played the Yamaha FG800 in just left it without any basic maintenance. The best playing guitar I have ever played is my brother's Yamaha FG800, and the worst playing guitar I have ever played is the FG800 which my brother had before this one. The terrible FG800 was bought used, while I picked the good one out at a guitar shop. Most of the FG800s I played at guitar shops had good playability, so I don't think they are inherently unplayable. Of course, it may be that they just don't suit your body and playing style.

I have no experience with Sigma so I can't really advise you on that. Nonetheless, I am pretty sure Sigmas are also really good, so you probably would be perfectly good going with the Sigma.

[Jim Comeaux]

O.K., I’m biased and I love my FG-830. It was the first guitar I bought and if I were smart, which I am not, I could have stopped buying right there. YES on the set up. I had mine set up with minimal off set and string heights at the 12th fret set at 4/64 ths. on the bass side snd 3/64 ths. on the treble side. I’m not exactly sure of the strin heights at the nut. I just asked him to get it as low as he dared without any fret buzz. I am strictly a flat picker in the bluegrass fashion, so if you are a finger picker you might be able to go a bit lower, but I really don’t see the need.

[Mirosh]

Another diff between the Yamahas is that the FG800s have, in the last year or so, gone to a walnut fingerboard. The 820 and 830, as far as I know, still use rosewood there. Functional diff or just cosmetic? The rosewood is much darker and I think a more dense wood.

I like my FG800 with walnut a lot. It impressed me more than many more expensive guitars. But I wish there'd been an FG820 in stock. I played one months earlier at a different store and it was sonically a standout.

[not_elliotsmith]

Originally Posted by Mirosh

Another diff between the Yamahas is that the FG800s have, in the last year or so, gone to a walnut fingerboard. The 820 and 830, as far as I know, still use rosewood there. Functional diff or just cosmetic? The rosewood is much darker and I think a more dense wood.

I like my FG800 with walnut a lot. It impressed me more than many more expensive guitars. But I wish there'd been an FG820 in stock. I played one months earlier at a different store and it was sonically a standout.

What's the difference between a FG800 and a FG820 though? I know that an FG800 back and sides and neck are made of nato but with a FG830 the back and sides are made with rosewood. Also the FG830 has scalloped bracing.

[not_elliotsmith]

Originally Posted by koolimy

I wonder if the shop you played the Yamaha FG800 in just left it without any basic maintenance. The best playing guitar I have ever played is my brother's Yamaha FG800, and the worst playing guitar I have ever played is the FG800 which my brother had before this one. The terrible FG800 was bought used, while I picked the good one out at a guitar shop. Most of the FG800s I played at guitar shops had good playability, so I don't think they are inherently unplayable. Of course, it may be that they just don't suit your body and playing style.

I have no experience with Sigma so I can't really advise you on that. Nonetheless, I am pretty sure Sigmas are also really good, so you probably would be perfectly good going with the Sigma.

Can you specify what you mean by "maintenance" though? Are you talking about truss rod adjustment so that the action can be improved?

[not_elliotsmith]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

O.K., I’m biased and I love my FG-830. It was the first guitar I bought and if I were smart, which I am not, I could have stopped buying right there. YES on the set up. I had mine set up with minimal off set and string heights at the 12th fret set at 4/64 ths. on the bass side snd 3/64 ths. on the treble side. I’m not exactly sure of the strin heights at the nut. I just asked him to get it as low as he dared without any fret buzz. I am strictly a flat picker in the bluegrass fashion, so if you are a finger picker you might be able to go a bit lower, but I really don’t see the need.

Can you explain what you mean by minimal offset? I'm not familiar with action adjustment.

Did the luthier inform you of what the heights were set to after he had set it up for you? Like he said "Okay I set the strings 4/64 ths on the bass side and 3/64 ths on the treble side?

[Mirosh]

Originally Posted by not_elliotsmith

What's the difference between a FG800 and a FG820 though? I know that an FG800 back and sides and neck are made of nato but with a FG830 the back and sides are made with rosewood. Also the FG830 has scalloped bracing.

820 is mahogany laminate and has light colored binding around the body and up the sides of the neck. 800 is nato laminate and has black binding, same places. 830 is rosewood laminate and the light colored binding continues up around the headstock. There are differences in the decoration around the soundhole. The Yamaha website may show these better than I know them, but it might not be up to date on the 800's change to a walnut fretboard and other recent changes.

[Martyn Eden]

Originally Posted by Rogerblair

That particular Yamaha model (830) is superb. They need a setup to achieve the playability you want, but they’re great instruments. I’d consider the Guild next in line.

Rb

My fs820 needed a Truss rod tweak by me and has been a joy to play since. I wouldn't pay anyone to touch it. It is my sofa/garden guitar, and a keeper.