Entering the world of 12 strings

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by ShannonA

Thanks... Yes. To be honest, I haven't yet even tried to learn a "12 string" song. I'm just playing it and seeing where things lead. For fingerpicking, I really love it. It's just that when I dig in, it's all jangle and no thump.

Solid rosewood gives plenty of thump. My rosewood 458 Taylor Grand Orchestra (a Jumbo with a wider waist) 12 string has thump to spare, as does my rosewood 818 Grand Orchestra six string. The 818 came with Medium strings, and I had to switch out the bass E string for a Light gauge bass due to the boomy-ness of the guitar. I settled on (six string) Elixir PB HD Light gauge {.013 - .053} as a good compromise solution. That is, Medium trebles over Light bass strings. Sounds very balanced now. With great resonance and a long decay.

Be well and play well,

Don
.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by ShannonA

...To be honest, I haven't yet even tried to learn a "12 string" song...

Here's a few to get you started:

[ShannonA]

Originally Posted by donlyn

Entering the world of 12 strings




ShannonA,

Mentioned by Glenn (and not the first time it was mentioned in this thread) is the Guild F-1512 Jumbo guitar. I know you just wrote it was a bit expensive, but it is a tremendous guitar at an almost budget price.

I have had an F-1512 for a couple of years, and it has now become my primary playing-out 12 string guitar. The construction is all-solid-wood. Spruce top over rosewood back and sides. Great resonance and well-balanced. It has a smooth sound and gets compliments from those who hear it. Treble and bass presence is assured. It comes in two variations, one with on-board electronics and one without. I got the one without, as I don't like to plug-in. (Also a tad cheaper.) The Jumbo size gives the guitar great projection. And while large, a Jumbo is easy to play seated. The waist allows it to sit very low on whatever leg you prefer, and I can easily reach the entire fretboard and strings. Also comes with their well padded Guild Premium Jumbo size gig bag.

I've been playing 12 string guitars since the 60s, and this is one of the best I've ever come across. That's a period there, without adding a "for the money" qualifier.

I have four 12 string guitars, including the cheaper Guild F-2512 Jumbo budget. But that one serves a purpose. Having laminate arch-back and sides, it is less susceptible to the wicked high humidity that plagues New England, especially in late summer and early fall.

I fingerpick all my guitars using my nails as picks.

And I tune my 12 strings down a Semi-tone to 'D#'. Makes it easier on my old hands, and also gives a bit more tone. And that's just using a Light {.010 - .047} 12 string set. Also puts less pressure on the neck joint, which means less chance of a neck re-set. Never had to do a neck re-set on one, maybe because way back in the day everyone tuned their 12 strings down two semi-tones to 'D'.

Good luck and good hunting,

(_o)===###

Don
.

How would you compare the playability and sound of the Guild 1512 and 2512?

[donlyn]

Entering the world of 12 strings

ShannonA,

Mentioned by Glenn (and not the first time it was mentioned in this thread) is the Guild F-1512 Jumbo guitar. I know you just wrote it was a bit expensive, but it is a tremendous guitar at an almost budget price.

I have had an F-1512 for a couple of years, and it has now become my primary playing-out 12 string guitar. The construction is all-solid-wood. Spruce top over rosewood back and sides. Great resonance and well-balanced. It has a smooth sound and gets compliments from those who hear it. Treble and bass presence is assured. It comes in two variations, one with on-board electronics and one without. I got the one without, as I don't like to plug-in. (Also a tad cheaper.) The Jumbo size gives the guitar great projection. And while large, a Jumbo is easy to play seated. The waist allows it to sit very low on whatever leg you prefer, and I can easily reach the entire fretboard and strings. Also comes with their well padded Guild Premium Jumbo size gig bag.

I've been playing 12 string guitars since the 60s, and this is one of the best I've ever come across. That's a period there, without adding a "for the money" qualifier.

I have four 12 string guitars, including the cheaper Guild F-2512 Jumbo budget. But that one serves a purpose. Having laminate arch-back and sides, it is less susceptible to the wicked high humidity that plagues New England, especially in late summer and early fall.

I fingerpick all my guitars using my nails as picks.

And I tune my 12 strings down a Semi-tone to 'D#'. Makes it easier on my old hands, and also gives a bit more tone. And that's just using a Light {.010 - .047} 12 string set. Also puts less pressure on the neck joint, which means less chance of a neck re-set. Never had to do a neck re-set on one, maybe because way back in the day everyone tuned their 12 strings down two semi-tones to 'D'.

Good luck and good hunting,

(_o)===###

Don
.

Originally Posted by ShannonA

How would you compare the playability and sound of the Guild 1512 and 2512?

Here's the good. Both guitars are keepers for me. Both have solid spruce tops. And both sound different, the 2512 having maple laminate arch-back and sides. The 1512 has all solid-rosewood back and sides. But my reason for keeping the 2512 is actually that it has laminate back and sides for the wicked humid times. I also keep a couple of laminate six-string Jumboes around for this reason. Sometimes large all-solid-wood guitars can sound a bit muffled or wonky in high humidity. Large laminates don't change their sound much in humidity.

Besides the build, here are the differences that matter to me.

Tuners are better on the 1512.

1512 has a smoother legato sound than the more staccato sound of the 2512. Probably due to the different effects of the woods used. Which results in a quicker decay rate on the 2512. The 1512 has more resonance and a longer decay rate. I think the octave strings sound a tad more pronounced on the 2512, again due to the smoother sound of the 1512.

The 1512 can be played louder than the 2512. Again goes to woods used. And played softly, the 1512 sounds almost angelic.

The 1512 has elicited many favorable comments, including from other guitar players as well as listeners. And I enjoy playing the rosewood 1512 more because I too think a lot of it.

So all in all, just based on the guitars themselves, the 1512 is a superior guitar.

The other big consideration is cost. To use ballpark numbers, the 1512 is twice the price of the 2512. Variations include whether or not to get a 1512 with or without electronics while the 2512 comes already electronically equipped. Never put a battery in it, so I won't comment on it. The 1512 comes with about a $100 gig bag too, but I view it as a 1512 bonus rather than a deal-breaker on the 2512. In fact, I separately ordered the same Premium bag from Guild for the 2512.

So in summation, if I had to get/keep only one, it would be an easy decision in favor of the 1512. Such a great sound and well worth the price.

I will admit to a bias toward Jumbo guitars and spruce tops paired with rosewood back and sides. I find Jumbo guitars lend themselves to having a great natural balance.

My other 12 strings include a solid spruce/rosewood Taylor 458 Grand Orchestra (a Jumbo relation with a wider waist) and a solid spruce/sapele Taylor 355 Jumbo.

Can you try these out before buying? Nothing is as good as playing them yourself.

Be well and chose well,

Don
.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by Coler

Best 12 string I have played in the lower range of budget was a takamine GJ-72CE.

I had one. Yes, very good value. Jumbo size, abalone rosette. (But like most lower-end guitars, the bass was not as full as those at the higher-ends.) Still, I enjoyed it so much, it motivated me to get a US-built Guild 12-string. Started with a used JF30-12 built in Corona. At the time it was less than $1,000, which was a fabulous deal. Still a favorite! I'm surprised what these are going for now, although reverb sold listings are considerably less than the prices on active listings, so use "make offer" and maybe there are still some good deals on these. If you buy used online, ask lots of questions about condition, action, saddle, neck angle, etc.

[ShannonA]

Originally Posted by donlyn

Entering the world of 12 strings






Here's the good. Both guitars are keepers for me. Both have solid spruce tops. And both sound different, the 2512 having maple laminate arch-back and sides. The 1512 has all solid-rosewood back and sides. But my reason for keeping the 2512 is actually that it has laminate back and sides for the wicked humid times. I also keep a couple of laminate six-string Jumboes around for this reason. Sometimes large all-solid-wood guitars can sound a bit muffled or wonky in high humidity. Large laminates don't change their sound much in humidity.

Besides the build, here are the differences that matter to me.

Tuners are better on the 1512.

1512 has a smoother legato sound than the more staccato sound of the 2512. Probably due to the different effects of the woods used. Which results in a quicker decay rate on the 2512. The 1512 has more resonance and a longer decay rate. I think the octave strings sound a tad more pronounced on the 2512, again due to the smoother sound of the 1512.

The 1512 can be played louder than the 2512. Again goes to woods used. And played softly, the 1512 sounds almost angelic.

The 1512 has elicited many favorable comments, including from other guitar players as well as listeners. And I enjoy playing the rosewood 1512 more because I too think a lot of it.

So all in all, just based on the guitars themselves, the 1512 is a superior guitar.

The other big consideration is cost. To use ballpark numbers, the 1512 is twice the price of the 2512. Variations include whether or not to get a 1512 with or without electronics while the 2512 comes already electronically equipped. Never put a battery in it, so I won't comment on it. The 1512 comes with about a $100 gig bag too, but I view it as a 1512 bonus rather than a deal-breaker on the 2512. In fact, I separately ordered the same Premium bag from Guild for the 2512.

So in summation, if I had to get/keep only one, it would be an easy decision in favor of the 1512. Such a great sound and well worth the price.

I will admit to a bias toward Jumbo guitars and spruce tops paired with rosewood back and sides. I find Jumbo guitars lend themselves to having a great natural balance.

My other 12 strings include a solid spruce/rosewood Taylor 458 Grand Orchestra (a Jumbo relation with a wider waist) and a solid spruce/sapele Taylor 355 Jumbo.

Can you try these out before buying? Nothing is as good as playing them yourself.

Be well and chose well,

Don
.

Thanks for this detailed analysis! I really appreciate it! I contacted Sweetwater this morning, and told then the 2 guitars I'm interested in are the F1512 and D1212. Of course, the D1212 will be easier on the wallet. I'm going to see aboit making some time to go there this week.

[rmp]

I have a D1512(e)

It's a canon. I needed to get it setup right, but once that was done, it's a great player.

in case you are interested....

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by ShannonA

Thanks for this detailed analysis! I really appreciate it! I contacted Sweetwater this morning, and told then the 2 guitars I'm interested in are the F1512 and D1212. Of course, the D1212 will be easier on the wallet. I'm going to see aboit making some time to go there this week.

OK.

Allow me to re-iterate,

Good luck and good hunting !

(_o)===###

Don
.

[TheGITM]

My 12 is an Alvarez-Yairi DY76. It really doesn't get played enough, tbh, though I did just replace the strings and give it a good cleaning/polish.

When I do play it, I love the sound!

[martingitdave]

A large bodied, solid wood, scalloped (or lightly) braced 12 string is one of my favorite instruments. It is difficult to get everything you want in a 12 string when you plan to use it regularly, and not just when the mood strikes you.

I just completed my hunt for a professional level instrument that I can use for gigs. I needed something that was powerful, stable, and played easily. I ended up with the Larrivee L-09-12. There are cheaper options out there from Larrivee like the L-03-12R, etc. Or, from Taylor, like the 150e and the 254(+)ce. that will get you about 75% of the big tone and play easily. Breedlove is also good. You may find that the Eastman 12 strings play well for you with a good setup.

I didn't find the import Guild necks to play that easily. Your experience may be different. The Yamaha LL-16-12 plays very easily, and sounds great, but the string spacing is too tight for finger pickers, in my opinion.

Good luck!

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by rmp

I have a D1512(e)

It's a canon. I needed to get it setup right, but once that was done, it's a great player.

in case you are interested....

That does sound good. I think you really lucked out with that one!

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by rmp

I have a D1512(e)

It's a canon. I needed to get it setup right, but once that was done, it's a great player.

in case you are interested....

Wow, Ray, that sounds really good! What a great advertisement for the Guild F-1512! Wonderful to hear this again. I remember the first time you put this video up.

- Glenn

[ShannonA]

Originally Posted by rmp

I have a D1512(e)

It's a canon. I needed to get it setup right, but once that was done, it's a great player.

in case you are interested....

Wow... I think you may have just completely sold me.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by ShannonA

Wow... I think you may have just completely sold me.

I really do think the Guild F-1512 would be a very cool 12-string to own and it's priced very reasonably for an all-solid wood jumbo 12-string. I think you would really be happy with this 12-string! Ray's video does a great job of showing you how good this 12-string really is. Don's comments, too, from someone else who owns this guitar are worth a great deal, in my opinion.

- Glenn

[rmp]

Thanks for listening, felt that it was a pretty good account for what the guitar can do. one thing for sure, It's loud!

It comes stocked with 10-gauge strings. Just wanted to mention.

Looking at the new ones I don't see a pickup listed in the specs for the listings on Sweetwater. Mine came with a Fishman PreSonus.

You can hear some of that in the video as I blended in a bit of what was coming out of my studio monitors.

That particular model ships with a Guild Sem-soft gib bag. Pretty good quality case from what I can see.

I did buy a Gator hard case for this one though.

I don't know if the semi-soft cases handle the dry climates during new England winters all that well.

While I'm sure one of the US Based Guild 12s are wonderful, this is 3x / 4x less money but IMO not 3x/4x less of a guitar

Very solid. I've had this since 2018, no issues at all.