Chinese made guitars

[ricll]

Originally Posted by jsa3107

There are great guitars made in the US
They may not be as cheap to buy but if you do buy them they do keep American workers working.....

Not necessarily. One of the probable reasons why there are less jobs in manufacturing in the US and worldwide is the rise in productivity in most industries - fewer workers producing more. So even if you do buy local products that still doesn't mean more local jobs.

[leeplaysblues]

Originally Posted by patticake

it's not. without getting into luthier-built or boutique brands, how about these three brands?

martin
gibson
taylor

they certainly come to mind first, and most guitar stores carry at least one or two if not all three of those brands.

Not in the rest of the world ... Yamaha, Tanglewood, Samick, to name a few probably sell more guitars individually than these three manufacturers combined.

It has to be remembered that the Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese factories generally build a non-brand mass produced product for Western companies to market under an existing or new brand.

As in so many industries it will become progressively more profitable for companies to divest of a majority of local manufacuring and become a hollowed out marketing company for the brand name only.

A number of Asian manufacturers are generally not into distribution and marketing at this stage, preferring instead to rely upon an established Brand names and reputation to sell their products. Think PRS SE or Breedlove Atlas.

The problem for Western manufacturing is that these guitars are now made using CNS so consistancy and build tolerances can be excellent, with luthier skills no longer a requirement past the design phase.

Using CNC they can get close to the same standards of manufacuring as say Taylor... and at a lower price point; once they have a good design. After all even Taylor does not spend a lot of time with each individual guitar trying to get that extra 5% of tone and playability..........

Basically, if we buy these competively priced offerings we are often getting a CNC made guitar from an Asian or (Mexican) factory often of a superb build and quality for the price abate without the mojo...

To a majority of the buying public Martin, Taylor and Gibson are generally seen (if at all in shops) as expensive, high end guitars that a majority of guitar players simply do not consider. The well built Asian made guitar simply meets the needs of a majority of players at 20% to 50% of the cost of a USA made guitar.

[rosewoodsteel]

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[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by ricll

... One of the probable reasons why there are less jobs in manufacturing in the US and worldwide is the rise in productivity in most industries - fewer workers producing more...

This is very true...

- Glenn

[HHP]

I like Martins but I ain't moving to Pennsylvannia.

[rosewoodsteel]

Originally Posted by HHP

I like Martins but I ain't moving to Pennsylvannia.

I like Pennsylvania, but ain't buying no Martin....
Oh....That's right.., I already have one.
Anyway, Pennsylvania really isn't so bad.
And the people there are free.

[gitnoob]

Originally Posted by rosewoodsteel

And the people there are free.

Which tactic would better serve a freedom fighter: encouraging free enterprise and capitalism or opposing them?

I buy guitars because I like them, but if my purchase might raise the standard of living for someone, I'm certainly not opposed to that.

Interesting side note: there's a university in Beijing cranking out high-quality luthiers. Award-winning luthiers. They offer both a BA and an MA in instrument building. I'm sure there must be a similar program in the US, but I am unaware of any. I'm all for higher education and quality instruments, so this seems like a Good Thing to me.

[nanango2000]

I have just bought a Cort 710 . It was made in China and is a beautiful job!

They were made in Korea until the workers had the cheek to want a fair deal
then the factory was shut down and the whole works sent to China and the Philippines. But It's still a well made guitar. (sorry workers, I found out too late)

[Mike_A]

Originally Posted by nanango2000

I have just bought a Cort 710 . It was made in China and is a beautiful job!

They were made in Korea until the workers had the cheek to want a fair deal
then the factory was shut down and the whole works sent to China and the Philippines. But It's still a well made guitar. (sorry workers, I found out too late)

Corts are made in the Philippines too? wow i never knew.

[martinedwards]

I have never owned an American made guitar.

I have lusted after them, and thier european counterparts like Lowden & McIlroy.

As I now make my own, I have a stable of all European handmade instruments.

but

as a general rule it seems to me that Americans are more into "gotta buy home produced" than many other nations. Our manufacturing here in europe is drying up. the world has moved on and we gotta accept that.

Add to that that given size of the US, for most of us outside the States, for us to buy a "home nation" instrument would be like you good American folks sticking to your STATE only........

If I was buying a DVD player would I care where it was made?

nope.

If I'm buying a car, I'll go by reputation & price. nationality comes joint 236th

the last Northern Ireland made car was the Delorian.......

there's no WAY I'm buying a locally made car!!!

If I'm buying a guitar it name on the headstock is low on the list of importance, but not as low as the place of manufacture.

if I find two guitars in a store which both suit my playing style and I like the feel, sound and looks. construction is similar and thay botha have all solid woods.

one costs the equivelent of a days wages, and the other costs the equivelent of a month's wages.

I'm gonna buy the cheaper one.

for me to drop a months pay on a guitar it would need to be magnificent, and the nationality of the person (or team) who assembled it would not mean the slightest to me.

[rosewoodsteel]

I have no problem with Chinese guitars.
I'm sure they are well build and they certainly are inexpensive.
My problem is with lax environmental and safety standards
I'm not listing any specifics this time around, so I ask the mods to be understanding.
In the end, we usually buy what we can afford.
Make joyful music and enrich the world.

[brianmay]

Originally Posted by rosewoodsteel

My problem is with lax environmental and safety standards

So for hundreds of years, we industrialised countries contaminated at will and now the emergent nations look like doing it, we're going to pillory them.

I reckon if you asked the average Chinese worker (IF such a person exists), if their lot has improved over the last 10 years, they'd say 'yes'.

I'm stopping now as this is drifting into a philosophy discussion and can go nowhere.

If the Chinese-made guitars were actually made in the USA by Chinese craftsmen, this thread wouldn't have happened.

[brian a.]

Originally Posted by brianmay

So for hundreds of years, we industrialised countries contaminated at will and now the emergent nations look like doing it, we're going to pillory them.

The world now has the knowledge, the science and the means not to make the same mistakes again and again. Financial supporting those who disregard that knowledge is yet another mistake.

Originally Posted by brianmay

I reckon if you asked the average Chinese worker (IF such a person exists), if their lot has improved over the last 10 years, they'd say 'yes'.

Yes, there is progress and an improving standard of living for many of the workers in these developing parts of the world. That is a good thing, but those improvements can also happen without the environmental carnage. Just as with endangered woods; endangered living and working conditions should not be overlooked.

Originally Posted by brianmay

I'm stopping now as this is drifting into a philosophy discussion and can go nowhere.

As long as discussions pertain to guitars, they should always be welcome.

Originally Posted by brianmay

If the Chinese-made guitars were actually made in the USA by Chinese craftsmen, this thread wouldn't have happened.

IMHO, this discussion is not about where the guitars are made but rather it is about how the guitars are made and the social & environmental costs of those choices.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by brian a.

IMHO, this discussion is not about where the guitars are made but rather it is about how the guitars are made and the social & environmental costs of those choices.

Only because some choose to make it so. It didn't start out that way ...

[gitnoob]

Originally Posted by brian a.

IMHO, this discussion is not about where the guitars are made but rather it is about how the guitars are made and the social & environmental costs of those choices.

There have been many of these threads, and nobody has ever documented the evils of the Chinese guitar industry. On the contrary, there are several youtube videos that offer factory tours of various Chinese makers, and the conditions seem fine, the workers seem happy, and the guitars seem to be well made.

If you want to take a stand on environmental and social issues, there are several issues here at home that may concern you.

If you'd rather talk guitars, we can do that too.