Nut width is really not that useful of a spec...

[drplayer]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

Rejecting a guitar because the string spacing (not neck width) at the nut doesn't suit you is like rejecting a new car because the seat is not adjusted the way you like.

I know what you meant in concept, but what if you can't adjust the seat to where you like it? If you like the neck, but the string spacing needs widened, and there isn't adequate room to widen it, what then? However, if the string spacing was where you like it, chances are, the width of the neck will follow suit and be fine too...at least that's been my experience. I have yet to come across a guitar that had good string spacing for me, but too wide or narrow of a neck.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by jim1960

That depends on the person. In my case, I have pretty thick fingers so I look for a wider nut. To play on a 1 3/4 nut I have to really think about my left hand to avoid inadvertently muting notes. I just had a parlor made with a 1 7/8 nut and it's a joy to play.

Is it really the width of the nut with that causes you to mute the notes or is it the string spacing? Your 1 7/8 nut width would mute the notes just as bad if the string spacing was the same as the 1 3/4, wouldn't it?

That's why I think string spacing is as important or perhaps more important. I feel that most of you (not all) when you talk about nut width preference are really talking about string spacing preference. It just happens that most of the time your string spacing preference aligns with your nut width preference.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

True, but even when the question is answered correctly once, people will continue answering it, whether correctly or not as if the correct answer has not yet been provided. Ever watched how often the same bit of information is repeated in a thread?

Tony

And this surprises you because...

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by drplayer

I know what you meant in concept, but what if you can't adjust the seat to where you like it? If you like the neck, but the string spacing needs widened, and there isn't adequate room to widen it, what then? However, if the string spacing was where you like it, chances are, the width of the neck will follow suit and be fine too...at least that's been my experience. I have yet to come across a guitar that had good string spacing for me, but too wide or narrow of a neck.

Yes, that is what I was getting at! Of course their are exceptions but 99% of the time I think that's true.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

…I feel that most of you (not all) when you talk about nut width preference are really talking about string spacing preference. It just happens that most of the time your string spacing preference aligns with your nut width preference.

Hi pz…

Since companies don't publish string-bed-width measurements for nut and saddle, how can we express it otherwise? And we certainly don't carry micrometers into music stores (though I have applied mine to my guitars).

I have yet to play a 1¹¹/₁₆" alleged spaced nut guitar that I'd make my own, and I've played hundreds. So that measurement alone is enough to keep me from pursuing a guitar with that spec.

Nut/saddle spacing and neck profiles DO NOT just 'happen' (as if by chance). It's not mere-chance for me when the measurements all line up. And I do pay attention to the measurements which are listed on guitars.

Guitar builders and manufacturers know what averages people like when it comes to guitars for flat-picking and fingerstyle guitar, and they build their lines of guitars accordingly. And that involves nut/saddle spacing and neck profiles.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi pz…

Since companies don't publish string-bed-width measurements for nut and saddle, how can we express it otherwise? And we certainly don't carry micrometers into music stores (though I have applied mine to my guitars).

I totally agree. I'm frustrated that they don't publish these measurements and ended up buying guitars I wasn't happy with until I became more knowlegeable about it.

I'm with you in the fact that I would never buy a guitar with 1 11/16 nut width. But the reason for me is that they all have too narrow a string spacing. But conversely I would not automatically buy one with 1 3/4 nut width because the spacing can differ so much.

I don't find a 1 1/4 nut width any easier to play than a 1 11/16 one if both have narrow string spacing. But that's just me.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

If you're going to take an approach other than "if it feels good, play it", and try to understand *why* it feels good you need the following...and understanding what works well for any given individual, measurement-wise, can be quite valuable, IMO:

1) Overall nut width

2) E-to-E string spacing at the nut

3) Overall width of fingerboard at 12th fret

4) E-to-E spacing at the bridge

5) Scale length

6) Fingerboard radius

7) Some idea about back of neck profile (shape), thickness of neck, etc.

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

<<snip>>

(3) is simply a factor of 1,5 and 7...

<<snip>>

This is not correct.

Different builders have different ways of addressing the taper of the fingerboard, and there can be fairly vast differences here (with #3), even if the other numbers are the same.

This is not speculation, this is measurable fact.

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Is it really the width of the nut with that causes you to mute the notes or is it the string spacing? Your 1 7/8 nut width would mute the notes just as bad if the string spacing was the same as the 1 3/4, wouldn't it?

That's why I think string spacing is as important or perhaps more important. I feel that most of you (not all) when you talk about nut width preference are really talking about string spacing preference. It just happens that most of the time your string spacing preference aligns with your nut width preference.

I cannot remember reading the spec's of a new guitar from any manufacturer that listed string spacing at the nut. Some don't even list nut width until you get in the small print.

Personally I've never played a 1-7/8" nut width guitar (the narrowest my blunt finger tips can handle) that had the string spacing of a 1-3/4" nut width. Likewise, I can certainly tell the difference going from a 1-7/8" nut to my guitars with 2" nuts (more comfortable) and then to my Spanish made classical with a 52mm (2-1/16") which is also comfortable.

In all of these cases I had no clue what so ever as to the string spacing. So for me your argument is kind of pointless. If it means something to you, more power to you.

Dave

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

You are actually supporting my premise. If you purchased your guitar using the string spacing as your primary spec, you would avoid the problem completely.

That's why both need to be taken into consideration. They are equally important.

No, I am not supporting your premise that nut width is not an important spec to consider when buying a guitar.

It is more important than string spacing per se . You are pretty much stuck with the fretboard width of the guitar you own. String spacing you can play around with to some extent.

I'll quote myself in an attempt to clarify....

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

...but I think string spacing at the nut as a spec is largely irrelevant...

It wouldn't affect my purchase decision, not because it doesn't matter, but because it is easily changed.

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

...I agree that it absolutely changes the feel, but I need to know how much real estate is available. If I like a guitar, but not the spacing at the nut, I can recut it or make a new nut to customize string spacing...

That's important because it tells me how wide I can go. A neck that is far too wide or far too narrow is difficult to manage. However, if the neck width at the nut is within the range that I like, it's easy enough to make a new nut spaced however I like within the limits of the neck width.

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

...The bridge spacing matters much more since changing that is substantially more invasive...

Spacing at the bridge can be changed, but it is more expensive and is limited by the wide the fretboard. Again, it's more difficult to change than the nut, so it matters more as a spec reference.



I guess I've spent too much time tinkering with vintage guitars. The thought of buying a guitar and spending $100-200 for minor fretwork, a new nut, or saddle just doesn't phase me. As long as I like the feel of the neck and it's wide enough but not too wide, I can set up the string spacing to work. Having it listed in the specs just wouldn't matter to me.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

String spacing you can play around with to some extent.

The operative word is "to some extent." Again, if you get the correct string spacing from the git go you probably will be happy with the nut width.

Originally Posted by paulzoom

The operative work is "to some exent." Again, if you get the correct string spacing from the git go you probably will be happy with the nut width.

I don't believe that's even close to accurate for the vast majority of players. Drop your preferred string spacing on a neck barely wider than that spacing and you'll have trouble hitting the e/E strings accurately, and you'll push them off the neck. Drop that same spacing on a very wide neck and you'll have to reach in so far that it will feel quite odd.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I don't believe that's even close to accurate for the vast majority of players. Drop your preferred string spacing on a neck barely wider than that spacing and you'll have trouble hitting the e/E strings accurately, and you'll push them off the neck. Drop that same spacing on a very wide neck and you'll have to reach in so far that it will feel quite odd.

You are missing the point. If you buy a guitar with your preferred string spacing I will bet you that 99.9% of the time the nut width is exactly where it needs to be. Not too wide or not too narrow.

Originally Posted by paulzoom

You are missing the point. If you buy a guitar with your preferred string spacing I will bet you that 99.9% of the time the nut width is exactly where it needs to be. Not too wide or not too narrow.

If nut width and string spacing are so closely tied, then why isn't knowing one just as good as knowing the other?

I think the real point is that I should just stick to technical discussions of vintage guitars, but being a glutton for punishment....

To help me understand exactly what you're looking for, what is your preferred string spacing? Is that with equal spacing between the strings, spaced on center, or something else?

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

If nut width and string spacing are so closely tied, then why isn't knowing one just as good as knowing the other?

I think the real point is that I should just stick to technical discussions of vintage guitars, but being a glutton for punishment....

To help me understand exactly what you're looking for, what is your preferred string spacing? Is that with equal spacing between the strings, spaced on center, or something else?

For me personally I look for string spacing at the saddle. That's where I find the biggest difference. For example, I own Breedloves which have 1 3/4 nut width with 2 1/4 string spacing at the saddle. However the Eastman I owned had the sam 1 3/4 nut width but the string spacing the saddle was 2 3/8 which ended up being too cramped at both the soundhole and the nut. So using the 1 3/4 nut width as my primary spec was not useful.

I think the 1 3/4 nut width may be where the greatest variance is. It seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that most 1 11/16 nut widths have the same string spacing. Don't know about the wider nut width.

So after thinking about it, maybe my premise applies more to 1 3/4.