Thermocure top still need time to open up?

Neilson · #1 11-20-2015, 04:52 AM

Hey guys,

Just got my tdr with Adirondack cooked top. Just wonder whether this cooked top will be open up further?? My understanding is cooked=aged=open up, correct me if i am wrong....

Long Jon · #2 11-20-2015, 05:14 AM

Mmmm ... I think we'll need to see pictures ...

ukejon · #3 11-20-2015, 06:50 AM

Just play the heck out of it....then the guitar will begin to open up/settle in/find its voice.

Kip Carter · #4 11-20-2015, 10:37 PM

I'm not sure what Thermocure is... but I know Yamaha's ARE's are not bingo right out of the box for some reason. When I got my 12 string I was really disappointed with the guitar the first initially playing of it. The guitar has sat to fully normalize with room temp and humidly before playing it (liked to kill me) but when I first played it I was so disappointed.

Well not sure why ... Irish stubborn streak or what.. but I played it hard for 3 hours straight and all at once... it was like a wall came down.

So in the case of Yamahas cooked top.. it seems to come alive after about 3-4 hours of solid playtime.

terrapin · #5 11-20-2015, 11:20 PM

I would not expect to see much change. The main reason for the process is to add something like 40 years to the wood aging. The cosmetic thing was a side result.

Wade Hampton · #6 11-21-2015, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin

I would not expect to see much change. The main reason for the process is to add something like 40 years to the wood aging.

Well, yes and no. Torrefaction makes the wood stiffer, lighter and more brittle. Given that all of the vibrational plates of a guitar work together, it makes sense to me that it will still require some playing in to loosen it up. I would be surprised if there were no changes in guitars with torrefied tops after they've been played a while.

whm

cep55 · #7 11-21-2015, 09:39 AM

Absolutely. I've owned a couple of torrefied tops and I think just like any other Adi top, they still open up and improve with time and playing.

Most I've played have had something vintage going on (a little more reverby quality) and didn't sound tight like some new Adi can, but I don't think torrefaction replicates all parts of the natural aging/playing in process, like string vibration from being played, and that wood just settling into being a guitar.

Torrefaction definitely adds something, though. A friend just played my basicslly new H&D TDR against his favorite 10-year-old TDR (which is an excellent guitar), and mine kind of blew it away. Fundamentally similar, but notably fuller/more complex. Made me think I need to sell my Adi/Madi OM instead of my TDR!

Sarasin · #8 11-21-2015, 10:25 AM

I speculate it does. The guitar as a whole will settle and as it ages I'm rationalizing it will keep opening.

I'm also considering the back and sides, which are not torrified and add greatly to the tone of a guitar.

I have a guitar with Brazilian rosewood back and sides that is at least 60+ years old. So it is already aged, will the guitar change and open? Yes I believe it will.

catdaddy · #9 11-21-2015, 10:33 AM

If the braces did not undergo torrefaction then there will be some aging and settling there that directly affects the top. Some guitars are now being made with back, sides and braces torrefied. How much opening up/settling, etc. may be variable based on how much of a guitar undergoes torrefaction.

Montesdad · #10 11-21-2015, 11:14 AM

Always give a guitar some time to work itself in - the vibrations it goes thru when being played make a difference in the wood regardless of torrefication or not -
There are so many other components affected in the bridge, back, sides, glue joints etc.

However, the advise that if a guitar isn't right at the get go to your ears - it may never be right for you.

ljguitar · #11 11-21-2015, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neilson

Hey guys,

Just got my tdr with Adirondack cooked top. Just wonder whether this cooked top will be open up further?? My understanding is cooked=aged=open up, correct me if i am wrong....

Hi Neilson

If we were to assume that all the ingredients which produce what we call 'aged' tone occur with 'cooked' tops, then you are there.

I'm just guessing we still don't know what causes aging (though some people are convinced they do).

For me it's largely irrelevant since I'd never buy a guitar hoping the tone would improve with playing. If the tone's not there now, I'm not buying it.

If it gets better - I am a bonus winner!

I've never bought a guitar I didn't love the tone of (except my Voyage-Air which I do love the tone of but I bought it to travel with).

And I've never kept any of the tone monsters I bought less than 11 years so far and even the one that was 4 years old when I acquired it has improved with regular and ongoing playing.

My oldest is nearly 23 years old and it continues to improve with play, and my other two are 13 and 12 years old and they continue to open too (and yes I know some think it's my ears opening not the guitars, and I'm ok with that).

I don't happen to think 'cooking' tops does everything to them that normal aging involves, nor shaking them vigorously (Vibrating them for days). Both may have an effect, and I still think guitars improve with playing beyond man's attempts to pre-age them.

Neilson · #12 11-21-2015, 06:10 PM

Thanks for the advice bros. Picture below is the cooked on my dreadnought for reference. It is very loud with this beautiful, golden top.

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Neilson · #13 11-21-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarasin

I speculate it does. The guitar as a whole will settle and as it ages I'm rationalizing it will keep opening.

I'm also considering the back and sides, which are not torrified and add greatly to the tone of a guitar.

I have a guitar with Brazilian rosewood back and sides that is at least 60+ years old. So it is already aged, will the guitar change and open? Yes I believe it will.

Wait, the back and side wood contribute only 20% of the sound right??
And back and side wood will age too? I initially thought everyone is talking aged top

Jeff Scott · #14 11-21-2015, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin

I would not expect to see much change. The main reason for the process is to add something like 40 years to the wood aging. The cosmetic thing was a side result.

The finish, itself, may still darken/yellow over time, perhaps. But............

Will he hear a change?

ljguitar · #15 11-21-2015, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neilson

Wait, the back and side wood contribute only 20% of the sound right??
And back and side wood will age too? I initially thought everyone is talking aged top

Hi Neilson…

If the backs/sides didn't contribute to tone (and 20% is a substantial amount to contribute) why wouldn't they just build all guitar backs/sides with cheap plywood?