12-string capo for non-vintage US Guild F212XL (I know, old topic, but hear me out)

natebernstein · #1 10-15-2015, 07:35 AM

Hi,

So I recently acquired a new-to-me Guild F212XL STD (New Hartford). Having never owned a 12-string before, I quickly became acquainted with the issues players face when trying to capo these guitars. My existing 6-string capos work OK but only if I tighten them to the point of pulling the lower-pitched strings in the E/A/D/G pairs sharp.

I searched for and read several threads on this topic here, and did some other internet research on 12-string capos, and it seems that the Shubb 12-string and Paige 12-string are the best choices out there. I lean toward the Paige, because I plan to play this guitar live for a few songs in a folk/bluegrass group where I also play 6-string guitar and 5-string banjo. I use Paiges on the 6-string and the banjo and am comfortable with them for live work. But if for some reason the Paige isn't the right choice for this particular guitar I'd be willing to live with the Shubb.

My question is, for this particular guitar, what do folks think is the right choice? Some of the other threads I've read noted that capos that are highly rated in general didn't work for their particular neck profile. Anyone who plays a modern US Guild jumbo 12-string have experience with capos that work well? I'd appreciate any input.

JohnW63 · #2 10-15-2015, 10:21 AM

I will be curious to hear this too. I have used the Shubb on my Ovation 12 string with success, once I found the right tension and placement behind the fret. I doubt the Ovation and the Guild from New Hartford have the same neck profile. I am sure some of the Guild fans will be quick to suggest a capo. If necessary, the LetsTalkGuild forum will give you quite a few opinions, if your responses here are few.

chitz · #3 10-15-2015, 10:33 AM

Back when I owned a 12 string, I used a Shubb 12 str capo.

The radius was not an exact match and Shubb advised me it was okay for me to take some of the bend out using a vise.

Worked fine after that.

I still have that capo if your interested for trading for a 6 string model.

merlin666 · #4 10-15-2015, 10:35 AM

I have an Ovation 12 string and a Guild six-string Jumbo, both with 1.75" nuts. I bought both a Shubb 12 string and a regular black Planet Waves NS capo, which works great on both guitars. Haven't had a need to unpack the Shubb ...

Silly Moustache · #5 10-15-2015, 11:13 AM

I use a 12 string Shubb on my Martin D12-20 but know that I'll need to adjust the 9th and 11th a tad.

The Paige capos are supplied with little rubber bands for adding pressure on the thinner strings.

Might work.

Outre' · #6 10-15-2015, 12:12 PM

just a shot in the dark. i have 2, and use it on my one Tak that has a 2" nut. dont know the radius of the glider, but definitely molds itself well to all neck widths

jemartin · #7 10-15-2015, 02:51 PM

I am not an expert on this topic... only my experiences are related here. I have used most all the mainline capos on my favorite Guild F512 (79 Westerly).. the only one that I can say that actually does the job of getting the strings to play correctly is the Paige 12 string capo. I don't particularly like using the thing... seems kind of fussy to get the little rubber sliders in the right place, but for good intonation with the least amount of pressure over all the strings.. it wins hands down. On my guitar the bass E octave is the hardest to get capo'd without too much pressure on the other strings, and this is where the Paige won out over the others. I do love all my Shubb capos.. but for this guitar.. as I said the Paige wins for me.

Brucebubs · #8 10-15-2015, 03:03 PM

I use a Shubb 12-string capo but more importantly, how you finding your first 12-string guitar and I gotta say, what a fantastic model to start with!
I use D'Addario EXP38's on four 12-string guitars all tuned down a 1/2 step.
When restringing, I leave tuning up the thin octave G till very last, tune all the other 11 strings first- seems to stabilize the neck tension. ( really more important on my Taylor 355 which snaps octave G's quite easily, Guild necks are more stable I think.)

Oldguy64 · #9 10-15-2015, 03:27 PM

My first and only 12 is a Taylor.
I went with the Paige.
If you are patient enough, it comes with little sleeves to beef up the diameter of the capo over the octave strings.
I've not been patient enough to get them on the capo.
I decided to put up with retuning the guitar. Lol

6L6 · #10 10-15-2015, 03:29 PM

I use a regular 6 string Schubb on my '71 Guild F-312NT. Works perfectly.

BE SURE TO PUT THE CAPO AS CLOSE TO THE FRET AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!

Bill

Guilty Spark · #11 10-15-2015, 06:09 PM

I have a Yamaha FG720S-12 that I use the Paige on. The rubber octave sleeves aren't hard to put on, and while I agree that it's a bit fussy in getting the capo (sleeves and all) properly seated, once done, I think it's about as good a 12-string capo as you're likely to find for anything close to a reasonable price. It doesn't require a lot of tension, and does well seated as close to the fret as possible.
If you plan on playing the capo songs in succession, and won't need to remove/replace the capo, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for that purpose.

AZLiberty · #12 10-15-2015, 08:08 PM

On my Guilds I use a Kyser 12-string capo

On my Rainsong 12 I use a Shubb with a lot of tension. (the fretboard is pretty flat on the Rainsong)

natebernstein · #13 10-16-2015, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I use a Shubb 12-string capo but more importantly, how you finding your first 12-string guitar and I gotta say, what a fantastic model to start with!
I use D'Addario EXP38's on four 12-string guitars all tuned down a 1/2 step.
When restringing, I leave tuning up the thin octave G till very last, tune all the other 11 strings first- seems to stabilize the neck tension. ( really more important on my Taylor 355 which snaps octave G's quite easily, Guild necks are more stable I think.)

I like it a lot - thanks! Definitely requires a different touch and playing approach, and the challenge of that is part of what I'm enjoying. I'm a blues/rock/Americana player and normally do a fair amount of soloing and bending, so that's definitely not a 12-string's forte. But for the acoustic group I play in I think the 12 will give me a great sound on a few songs. We only have one other instrumentalist and on some of the numbers for which we both play guitar this will provide a bit more distinction in the sound.

charlesa · #14 10-16-2015, 01:10 PM

I own some Guild 12-strings, and have owned a bunch more. For years I've used Planet Waves NS capos because they're cheap, light, almost invisible from a distance and work good. I've had both a 212XL Std and a 212XLCE Std. Worked fine on both of those. Bends don't work very well on a 12, but the big guitars are kings of the slide.

Wade Hampton · #15 10-16-2015, 01:34 PM

Nate, I use a Shubb 12 string capo on my 12 string. It works fine.

One thing I did that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread so far, but which helped immensely with the overall intonation in general and in capoing the guitar in particular was to have a new bridge saddle carved so that each individual string was intonated correctly.

This gives you a bridge saddle that zig zags back and forth but makes the guitar play in tune beautifully. Because of that it also minimizes any retuning needed when capoing the guitar.

There are two drawbacks to this, the first being the expense. It's not a difficult modification to have made but it is a bit time-consuming, so you'll have to pay your guitar repair tech for the time it takes to do the work. The other drawback is that - first - you have to decide which set of 12 string guitar strings you like the most, then have the saddle carved to go with those.

If you go hopping from different brands, alloys and gauges of strings for this guitar, you should wait until you've decided on which strings sound best, THEN get the saddle carved to accommodate that specific set. From then on that's the set you should use on that guitar.

To me, it's really worth doing that, because not only does that individually intonated saddle make a 12 string guitar stay and play in tune far better, but the guitar's tone actually improves, probably because the countless little dissonances that you get with a straight saddle on a 12 string simply go away.

So my recommendation is that you experiment with different string brands and gauges until you've decided on which set you want to use from here on out, then get two fresh sets of the strings and take the guitar to a guitar tech to carve an individually intonated saddle for it.

The reason it's a good idea to take two new sets of strings for this job is that the luthier has to continuously tighten and loosen the strings in order to do the carving of the saddle. That repeated tightening and loosening kills the strings faster than anything else, so if you provide only one set when you have this done, the guitar will come back to you with a set of strings on it that will be half-dead at best.

But if you provide two sets of strings, the guitar tech can do the work using the first set, then restring it with the second, meaning you'll get the guitar back both perfectly intonated and with a fresh set of strings on it, sounding its best.

Hope that makes sense.

Wade Hampton Miller