Looking for Amp Advice After Going Down the Research Rabbit Hole

[waterlooz]

https://reverb.com/item/47765297-sch...nthracite-sale

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

I don't think this "pragmatic versus sexy" theme is effective. Different things work for different people in different scenarios.

For example, a major appeal of my 30m is its ridiculously quick and hassle-reducing setup with its built-in mixer and under a minute assembly of its driver column into the sub. As a solo guy it has plenty of inputs for any guest artists who might pop in. No outboard mixer setup/stand/cables and a cleaner stage. These operational factors were the major reasons I acquired it, other than its outstanding sound amplification and sturdy construction. That plus I didn't want to be hoisting a 37-pound 15-inch PA on top of a speaker pole for my larger gigs.

Is that sexy or pragmatic?

Outboard mixers combined with conventional speakers on stands are also awesome. For one thing with the right combination, you can get outstanding sound amplification at a lower price given the right combination, and if the dispersion isn't as wide as the best Bose or even EV options, well it isn't always required or noticed either.

Anyway I could spin out pro and con scenarios for any piece of kit. It's always possible to buy too much (no one in this thread has ever done that of course, certainly not me), but you get the idea.

Good points. Each acoustic amplification system is built with specific needs in mind by each manufacturer. If one of those systems is a great fit for your specific needs then it is your pragmatic solution......and they sort of are sexy, compared to the mish mash of cheap kit I have anyway!!!

I was just giving a different line of thought in my reply.

[thegreatgumbino]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. It's greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, I was unable to make to GC last night to test them out. Hoping to make it tonight.

Please keep the recommendations/discussion coming. There's such wealth of information on this board. I'm pretty sure I've read a lot of your thoughts on various threads about these amps, but having and updated further discussion in one place it is very helpful.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

Anyway I could spin out pro and con scenarios for any piece of kit.

I decided to go with a more traditional system as it can be more "modular" than an amp or all-in-one array: Two QSC K10 speakers, a QSC CP8, and a Behringer XR18 mixer. Not as convenient, but lets me cover a wide variety of situations. I can take the pieces I need for everything from a solo gig at a tiny bar to a big outdoor space with a full band.

Tiny coffee house or at home? Plug directly into the CP8 or a K10. Slightly larger, or with another musician? Use the mixer into a single K10 high and behind. Large space or outdoors? Two K10s as mains, CP8 as a monitor, controlled with the mixer.

[Medford Guitar]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I love my Cube EX.

That's a great setup.

I work with three female singers, so we use an EV Evolve 50
I keep a Fishman LB Mini on sage with me as my guitar monitor.

[Medford Guitar]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Having a good quality compact mixer can be very handy. You can get them with effects, 48v phantom power, e/q and notch filters, xlr, jack, phono and USB in/out, and line level out. Basically, everything you would want any acoustic amp/pa to have plus+.

You then have something you can use at home (recording as well as rehearsal) and take to any gig. Always giving you a familiar set up wherever you are.

What speaker system you run the mixer to is then optional. You could have a small powered speaker for home, larger for gigs, or double up (same for both). Also, if the venue has a house pa you can just run your mixer as a di into that.

All in one systems, like those on your list, are sexy. But a more modular system of compact mixer and powered speaker(s) can perhaps be a bit more flexible in the longer term.

I have a couple of cheap shop branded powered speakers (Gear4Music), a compact 4 channel mixer (solo gigs) and a compact 12 channel mixer (band gigs). I have had the system for about 15 years now and I have run monthly open mic's, indoor and outdoor gigs, community events, weddings, pub sessions, parties etc with it. I even take one of the speakers to our MVC concerts each month and plug the electric piano directly into it.

For me, going pragmatic rather than sexy has got me out of the house and using the kit far more than I have ever found use for the Marshall AS50 all in one acoustic guitar amp that I also have had for years (and is gathering dust!).

I am thinking of upgrading the 4 channel mixer soon to a EAE StompMix 4 because it has some extra features that will be useful for me. And I need a new set of tripod stands for the speakers. But everything is working well. I did replace the 10" driver in one of the cabinets a few years ago (not difficult or expensive) as it was starting to get raspy.

Anyway, that's got you thinking!

Great tips! We use an Allen Heath ZED10FX mixer with our Evolve 50 for the very reasons you mention. Lead singer has a condenser mic so phantom power a must for us

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

I decided to go with a more traditional system as it can be more "modular" than an amp or all-in-one array: Two QSC K10 speakers, a QSC CP8, and a Behringer XR18 mixer. Not as convenient, but lets me cover a wide variety of situations. I can take the pieces I need for everything from a solo gig at a tiny bar to a big outdoor space with a full band.

Tiny coffee house or at home? Plug directly into the CP8 or a K10. Slightly larger, or with another musician? Use the mixer into a single K10 high and behind. Large space or outdoors? Two K10s as mains, CP8 as a monitor, controlled with the mixer.

Totally makes sense and this is good kit.

If I had a small coffeehouse type gig I might bring my Bugera AC60. My S1 Pro or Everse 8 would also do fine (the Everse would probably be overkill for small/quiet, and I usually bring it as a monitor-if-needed and backup emergency PA if my 30m ever blew up).

I probably have too much PA equipment at this point--I have other pieces and mixers too--but it's nice to have extra once it's already paid off. If I were limited to two items it'd be the 30m and the Everse for the reasons above.

(But I'd hide the Bugera from the two-limit police because I like and and it's small and easy to hide).

[Charlie Bernstein]

The farmers markets I play at don't allow amplification. That's a good policy. Amped music really annoys lots of customers, and the purpsoe of the music is to make the market more fun, not a drag.

Likewise, buskers who amplify can make in-town shopping painful. There's a guy outside L.L. Bean a lot who can be heard two blocks away, and not in a good way. Getting into the store is like running a sonic gauntlet.

I only like amplifying at pubs and bars, and not real loud. Some patrons like to be able to enjoy each other's company.

Having said that, just about every rig available today does a good job. Something like Loudbox Mini would work fine for just one mic and one instrument. Just get something that covers your needs.

The best small venue PA I've ever played through is a Bose stick. Very lifelike, and real easy to set up and break down.

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

I decided to go with a more traditional system as it can be more "modular" than an amp or all-in-one array: Two QSC K10 speakers, a QSC CP8, and a Behringer XR18 mixer. Not as convenient, but lets me cover a wide variety of situations. I can take the pieces I need for everything from a solo gig at a tiny bar to a big outdoor space with a full band.

Tiny coffee house or at home? Plug directly into the CP8 or a K10. Slightly larger, or with another musician? Use the mixer into a single K10 high and behind. Large space or outdoors? Two K10s as mains, CP8 as a monitor, controlled with the mixer.

Kinda where I have landed but with Yamaha DZR 10s, an Everse 8, and an A&H CQ 20b. That covers anything I ever need. If I play anything more complicated someone else has the sound equipment.

[jseth]

Sounds as though (ha! See what I did there?) you have a lot of your choices lined out, but I would throw the Bose Pro8 into the mix as well... especially if you liked the Compact L1.

Another option would be a used Bose L1 Model II - that's what I have and absolutely love! For singer/songwriter/ guitar music, it is the best rig I've used in over 50 years of performing. It is VERY different from any single source speaker unit, however, and many folks can't seem to wrap their heads around what it does... you would need some sort of mixer with it - I'd suggest finding a used Bose T1, as it was designed for the L1 system and it does a whole lot more than "just a small mixer"...

I've heard a lot of faux Bose rigs and not been all that impressed with them, especially the less expensive ones... they're close, but... no cigar!

I have an AER Compact 60 that is remarkable for its sound output, size and weight - but I would always use the big Bose rig if I had my druthers...

[Groberts]

I use a variety of options. For smaller restaurant/bars and 5 star resort patio's (Ritz Carlton etc) I use a Fishman Loudbox Artist with an extension speaker from the DI Out. I was using a Bose S1 Pro but there were times where it would clip and bottom out from more aggressive attack, not just volume per se. So I just got the EV Everse 8 and I am super impressed with its performance, battery power and Mixer features via the app. It matches my Fishman Loudbox Artist quite nicely and depending on how I EQ it, the Everse 8 may sound slightly better. The pair of these is very capable for a lot of shows.

When I need to cover more area I use a Bose L1 Pro 8 and the Everse 8 as a monitor. Or I have a pair of Bose L1 Pro 8's. In that regard, I don't need a monitor since I can place them behind me and to my left and right slightly. I can hear them fine and I know exactly what the mix is like that the audience is hearing.

Lastly, I have a Bose T4S Mixer for time when I play in a duo. That gives me more inputs. All this is very portable. But for ease of set up and load-in/load-out, the Fishman LB Artist/Everse 8 is incredible easy to work with and it sounds great.

I recorded a solo acoustic instrumental at home today with my Fishman Loudbox Artist and Everse 8.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

The farmers markets I play at don't allow amplification. That's a good policy. Amped music really annoys lots of customers, and the purpsoe of the music is to make the market more fun, not a drag.

Likewise, buskers who amplify can make in-town shopping painful. There's a guy outside L.L. Bean a lot who can be heard two blocks away, and not in a good way. Getting into the store is like running a sonic gauntlet.

I only like amplifying at pubs and bars, and not real loud. Some patrons like to be able to enjoy each other's company.

Having said that, just about every rig available today does a good job. Something like Loudbox Mini would work fine for just one mic and one instrument. Just get something that covers your needs.

The best small venue PA I've ever played through is a Bose stick. Very lifelike, and real easy to set up and break down.

Charlie, like you I have played live at a lot of places without amplification. And many gigs where solo or with a string band there has just been a single mic' for stage sound "lift". This style of acoustic performance is a very different proposal to what the OP describes.

The Op sets out how they are practicing with a friends rig following a first gig experience and enjoying the sound of using a close vocal mic' and plugged in guitar. And there are some skills and familiarity needed to play like that. Plus plugging in and close mic'ing the vocals gives the opportunity to mold the guitar and vocals with effects, electronically filling the soundscape in a way that's impossible acoustically.

I would say 95%+ acoustic guitar playing singers who gig or do open mic's, busker etc plug and play. Those of us who gig unamped, with a single stage mic' or mic' for voice and mic' for guitar are in a very small minority. I will certainly be looking for different features from a pa system than someone who plugs and plays (a speaker in front rather than behind system for a start).

Regarding volume...... You and I have probably both experienced the loud crowd loud rig syndrome! Which then becomes loud rig and no crowd as folks go outside to talk or to the back of the room to shout at each other! You don't need a loud pa for a Friday night bar... You just need to be entertaining. And then there are the "coffee house" players, there as background music, who don't understand what the word "background" means!

Anyway, I do like the purely acoustic gigs. And played one on Saturday night in a local church. The church does have a small stage and a pa system, but I didn't use either. I just stood in front of the audience and played and sang.. Lovely acoustics in the building so carrying to the back was no problem at all. It is a very intimate, but also exposing, way of performing.

[rmp]

If you are just looking to amp the guitar:

If it was me, it'd be a tossup between an Acoustasonic JR (Fender) and a LoudBox Artist

over the two, the Fender has a better sounding array of on-board effects, the loudbox has a lot more "beans". (my 2 cents there)

I also have a pair of S1 Pros, while they make a nice small compact PA, when lined off a small mixer, they fall short (imho) of being a really good dedicated "acoustic guitar amp"

[broy]

+1 for the Fishman Loudbox Artist.

I have a Bose S1, and I like it, but it gives a hi fi sound IMO that I'm not in love with, and I hear the Fishman offers a more natural sound.

I've heard pairing the Bose S1 with the Loudbox Artist works really well... you should get one of each.

[Jinder]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned AER…I’ve tried so many acoustic amps and have found the Compact 60 to be the only thing that has truly satisfied me professionally. Absolutely love mine and never leave the house for a gig without it.