Taylor Grand Concert 12 strings (Taylor 552ce cedar)

[ellbailz]

Would love to hear thoughts on the grand concert 12 strings.(352ce, 362ce, 452ce, 552ce, 752ce), particularly the cedar/magogany 552ce, and the impact of X vs V bracing.

I’ve got a 355ce which sounds great, but I find myself playing so much more dynamically on the grand concert models when I get a chance to try them in the shop. So far tried a 352ce, 362ce and 552ce (iron bark). 352ce was nice, but tonally was lacking something. 362ce also nice but lacked the dynamics I like. 552ce (iron bark) was surprisingly really nice, and really powerful, projection was great. The model I’m most looking for is a 552ce cedar/mahogany. I have a 514ce (2013, X brace) cedar/hog and it is absolutely spectacular in every way (touch sensitivity, warmth, strumming response and tone), and hence I am seekingly badly to play a 552ce cedar, particularly X brace (V brace generally less bass, and GC size not helping for bass naturally).

If anyone has played then let us know your thoughts. Particular X vs V argument. Unfortunately they’re discontinued so I must keep a keen eye on second hand market. The natural bass push of rosewood may help a 752ce too!

[cliff_the_stiff]

The Taylor 562 all mahogany is one guitar I’ve bought twice.
The natural compressor that is Mahogany does a nice job clarifying all the sounds a 12 string makes.

I prefer X braced Taylor 12 string guitars. I think I hear the claimed improved sustain of V braced guitars, but on a 12 string, I actually might prefer a little less sustain to again clarify the sounds.

I have not played a cedar 12 string, but I did have a Cedar top 514 for a while and thought it was the best sounding Tayor made. It didn’t have the rigidity of spruce and it had less “headroom” meaning that hard strumming would overdrive it. Because of that, I probably wouldn’t choose it for 12 string, but I would still like to be proved wrong about that.

[Rolph]

I have a 552 with Eucalyptus top, (urban red ironbark), for about 3 mos., Terrific guitar. My first Taylor, been playing since the Beatles came to Ed Sullivan. It is not heavily built, as someone else stated, the sound has great balance, plugged or unplugged. The cedar top would probably improve the bass characteristics of this guitar, and improve the sound.
This particular guitar, with a capo, seems to open up dramatically with very little effort.
I actually prefer the sound of the Guild F2512, the Taylor's easier to play, and I grew up with the Byrds.

[donlyn]

Taylor Grand Concert 12 strings (Taylor 552ce cedar)

I like playing 12 string guitar.

Might have bought an X-braced 552 when they came out, but a combination of factors worked against it.
Never got to play one.
No stores in the Greater Boston/Eastern MA area had any.
I like(d) the sound of a big body Jumbo better.
And I was able to get a used Taylor 458e-R (R for rosewood) Grand Orchestra in great shape.
So it was no contest. All my guitars are X-braced, and I guess so are my ears.

If i ever come across an X-braced 552, I might have some choices to make, but it might not happen anyway. I did get to play a couple of the other Taylor Grand Concert 12 strings and kind of liked them overall, but none of them really whispered "buy me".

More than happy with my two Taylor 12 strings, and also my two Guild 12 strings. I also have a 2512 arch-back in addition to the 1512. I got the 1512 all solid-wood rosewood version with no electronics on board and it was noticeably less expensive. And it comes with a great well padded gig bag that makes a huge difference. It is also noticeably better than the 2512 version. I wanted a laminate because of some very humid times of the year around here, and large body solid wood guitars can sound a little wonky in wicked high humidity.

Net result is that a 1512 is a far better buy in terms of bang-for-the-buck than the 2512 for not much more scratch. Tone is better, tuners are better, and it also feels a bit better. But they do sound different, which can be important too.

I tune my 12 string guitars to D# and fingerpick all my instruments using my nails as picks.

Be well and play well,

Don
.

[edward993]

I love Taylor 12s, swear by em as they are the only ones I'd care to own for their sheer playability and fun factor. But you asked for opinions, right?

I know you like the GC body, and I love mine as well, but I personally don't care for a GC-bodied 12string. Simply biased too "jangly" and lacking the bottom end that a 12 must have for my taste. I bet that's why you like your 355: the bigger bass notes balance well with the octaves. On the 12-string GCs I've tried, I couldn't get past the bass deficit.

That said, if you play live with a band, you're better off with said GC. But playing for your own enjoyment, I'd personally stick with a bigger body for a 12, where the Taylor GS is their best 12er IMO.

Edward

[fpuhan]

Well, I have one that you missed or overlooked: The 652ce Builders Edition. Truth be told, I wasn't in the market for a 12-string (I had two already), but I was just checking out guitars one day while I'd brought a guitar in for electronics work, and the one that just stood out and spoke to me was the short (12-fret), reverse-strung beauty with beveled armrest and cutaway in Wild Honey Burst. I don't think I've ever felt quite as ease playing a twelve string as I did with this. I went home without it, but I couldn't stop thinking about it, so when I went back to pick up my repaired guitar I decided if it was still available it was coming home with me. It was and it did!

[donlyn]

Taylor Grand Concert 12 strings (Taylor 552ce cedar)

OP - ellbailz,

Another thought which may have some bearing on a Grand Concert 12 string.

I do favor large Jumbo guitars. The body shape of a Taylor Grand Concert is what I would call a small Jumbo (please forgive the oxymoron). While I do not have a GC 12 string, I do own a couple of GC six strings. Staying within the realm of Taylor guitars and similar woods, I have a Taylor Grand Orchestra 12 string, A Taylor Grand Orchestra six string, and a Taylor Grand Concert six string. All of these share the same woods, spruce over rosewood bodies. I do like this wood combination a lot.

All of these get a lot of play around here. While I have to be careful about over-driving the Grand Concert, it can produce some of the sweetest (as in aural candy) sounds of all. And the body can produce a pronounced bass accompaniment. It's just not a loud guitar on its own. I string it with Elixir PB HD Light gauge strings {.013 - .053}, which is what I use on most of my six string guitars, including the 818 Grand Orchestra. By way of comparison to a Taylor 355 (which I own), rosewood makes for different sounds, but the 355 is one of the best 12 strings ever made. (My own opinion of 'course', but ultimately that is all I can offer.) I mention this because you have one too.

So what we have here is an apples to oranges kind of thing. My connection and comparison through all of these aforementioned guitars is that maybe you hear things in a manner similar to me. My basis of interest in the 552 model is also based on my GC 512 all mahogany Grand Concert and the 355 spruce over sapele and my favorite ukulele, a Kala cedar topped acacia 5 string tenor (octaved on the bass 'G' with a slim wound metal string to a 'gG' course like a 12 string).

This is probably too much info, but I think you might be on the right track with a 552. But a spruce over rosewood X-braced GC might be a good fit too. Having given you an extended summary of my guitar acquisitions, and a bit of why, I'll let you connect all the dots there. All I know is that it works for me. Please post details if you do get (or reject getting) a GC 12 string, as I would like to read your conclusions on this.

Two more ingredients are that I tune my 12 strings to D# and fingerpick all my instruments using my nails as picks.

Be well and play well,

Don
.

[Dave Hicks]

I have a 552 with the older bracing. I like it and use it a fair amount. It's great for atmosphere rather than rumble. 12 fret/small body is good for those of us with Short Arms Syndrome.

I've heard a number of Taylors that don't sound good through a PA IMO, but this is not one.

D.H.

[vintageom]

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

The Taylor 562 all mahogany is one guitar I’ve bought twice.
The natural compressor that is Mahogany does a nice job clarifying all the sounds a 12 string makes.

I prefer X braced Taylor 12 string guitars. I think I hear the claimed improved sustain of V braced guitars, but on a 12 string, I actually might prefer a little less sustain to again clarify the sounds.

Fully agree. I bought a used Taylor 562CE all-mahogany 12-string and it is wonderful. I had always had jumbos for 12-strings and this little guy amazes me every time I play it. Love the warmth and comfort and organized jangle.

[ellbailz]

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

The Taylor 562 all mahogany is one guitar I’ve bought twice.
The natural compressor that is Mahogany does a nice job clarifying all the sounds a 12 string makes.

I prefer X braced Taylor 12 string guitars. I think I hear the claimed improved sustain of V braced guitars, but on a 12 string, I actually might prefer a little less sustain to again clarify the sounds.

I have not played a cedar 12 string, but I did have a Cedar top 514 for a while and thought it was the best sounding Tayor made. It didn’t have the rigidity of spruce and it had less “headroom” meaning that hard strumming would overdrive it. Because of that, I probably wouldn’t choose it for 12 string, but I would still like to be proved wrong about that.

That's interesting, never considered that one can 'overdrive' a cedar top. I find my 514 to be perfect for strumming hard, but also with the sensitivity for finger style that I like. Cedar 12 strings (Taylors anyway) are really hard to find. Luthier says there's little problem with them structurally as long as the grain is tight. There must be a reason (perhaps your suggestion!)

[ellbailz]

Originally Posted by Rolph

I have a 552 with Eucalyptus top, (urban red ironbark), for about 3 mos., Terrific guitar. My first Taylor, been playing since the Beatles came to Ed Sullivan. It is not heavily built, as someone else stated, the sound has great balance, plugged or unplugged. The cedar top would probably improve the bass characteristics of this guitar, and improve the sound.
This particular guitar, with a capo, seems to open up dramatically with very little effort.
I actually prefer the sound of the Guild F2512, the Taylor's easier to play, and I grew up with the Byrds.

This thing seriously rocked. It's just too expensive for me and there are of course no second hand ones within range right now. I found strumming it hard was where i found the best response, but completely agree with your capo suggestion, it almost got louder when i capo'd it!!

[ellbailz]

Originally Posted by edward993

I love Taylor 12s, swear by em as they are the only ones I'd care to own for their sheer playability and fun factor. But you asked for opinions, right?

I know you like the GC body, and I love mine as well, but I personally don't care for a GC-bodied 12string. Simply biased too "jangly" and lacking the bottom end that a 12 must have for my taste. I bet that's why you like your 355: the bigger bass notes balance well with the octaves. On the 12-string GCs I've tried, I couldn't get past the bass deficit.

That said, if you play live with a band, you're better off with said GC. But playing for your own enjoyment, I'd personally stick with a bigger body for a 12, where the Taylor GS is their best 12er IMO.

Edward

I love the 355 for delicate playing, the bass is all there and so is the clarity - I find when I strum it hard it goes all over the place and the bass almost gets 'lost' and it can sound a bit nasally/middy. I'm imagining having both, jumbo and a grand concert to cover all ground.

[ellbailz]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

I have a 552 with the older bracing. I like it and use it a fair amount. It's great for atmosphere rather than rumble. 12 fret/small body is good for those of us with Short Arms Syndrome.

I've heard a number of Taylors that don't sound good through a PA IMO, but this is not one.

D.H.

That is certainly the main disappointment with Taylor guitars, even the ES2. I will just have to keep a good look out for a second hand one in the UK!

[ellbailz]

Originally Posted by fpuhan

Well, I have one that you missed or overlooked: The 652ce Builders Edition. Truth be told, I wasn't in the market for a 12-string (I had two already), but I was just checking out guitars one day while I'd brought a guitar in for electronics work, and the one that just stood out and spoke to me was the short (12-fret), reverse-strung beauty with beveled armrest and cutaway in Wild Honey Burst. I don't think I've ever felt quite as ease playing a twelve string as I did with this. I went home without it, but I couldn't stop thinking about it, so when I went back to pick up my repaired guitar I decided if it was still available it was coming home with me. It was and it did!

I did miss this one yes. I think price locks me out of this. Played a lot of maple Taylors and they can sound super 'clean', I just wonder how the lack of bass sounds on that especially small body.

[ellbailz]

Originally Posted by donlyn

Taylor Grand Concert 12 strings (Taylor 552ce cedar)

OP - ellbailz,

Another thought which may have some bearing on a Grand Concert 12 string.

I do favor large Jumbo guitars. The body shape of a Taylor Grand Concert is what I would call a small Jumbo (please forgive the oxymoron). While I do not have a GC 12 string, I do own a couple of GC six strings. Staying within the realm of Taylor guitars and similar woods, I have a Taylor Grand Orchestra 12 string, A Taylor Grand Orchestra six string, and a Taylor Grand Concert six string. All of these share the same woods, spruce over rosewood bodies. I do like this wood combination a lot.

All of these get a lot of play around here. While I have to be careful about over-driving the Grand Concert, it can produce some of the sweetest (as in aural candy) sounds of all. And the body can produce a pronounced bass accompaniment. It's just not a loud guitar on its own. I string it with Elixir PB HD Light gauge strings {.013 - .053}, which is what I use on most of my six string guitars, including the 818 Grand Orchestra. By way of comparison to a Taylor 355 (which I own), rosewood makes for different sounds, but the 355 is one of the best 12 strings ever made. (My own opinion of 'course', but ultimately that is all I can offer.) I mention this because you have one too.

So what we have here is an apples to oranges kind of thing. My connection and comparison through all of these aforementioned guitars is that maybe you hear things in a manner similar to me. My basis of interest in the 552 model is also based on my GC 512 all mahogany Grand Concert and the 355 spruce over sapele and my favorite ukulele, a Kala cedar topped acacia 5 string tenor (octaved on the bass 'G' with a slim wound metal string to a 'gG' course like a 12 string).

This is probably too much info, but I think you might be on the right track with a 552. But a spruce over rosewood X-braced GC might be a good fit too. Having given you an extended summary of my guitar acquisitions, and a bit of why, I'll let you connect all the dots there. All I know is that it works for me. Please post details if you do get (or reject getting) a GC 12 string, as I would like to read your conclusions on this.

Two more ingredients are that I tune my 12 strings to D# and fingerpick all my instruments using my nails as picks.

Be well and play well,

Don
.

Thanks for this Don, really interesting. I'm mostly after a 552ce or 752ce, rosewood may make up for that base loss, and the typically complex overtone may be lessened with the smaller body, but I think the 752's are just quite rare in the second hand market. Although counter intuitively I have seen a 352ce (X brace) just come up on Reverb, which I'm considering, combination of 352ce and a 355ce could cover all ground while having some relational quality! I think I will have to be very patient for a 552ce in the UK