The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-16-2015, 08:57 AM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,606
Default Question for Larry (ljguitar) and those who use multiple guitars onstage...

I use two guitars onstage and have been using the RedEye Twin preamp...but I want to start using three guitars.

In order for each guitar to have it's own channel on the mixing board that requires three different preamps, each with its own XLR output.

I like the Red Eye preamps and just purchased another one - the single channel version.

Now when I have two guitars onstage I can plug one guitar into my RedEye Twin and run its output to one channel of the PA board and the other guitar into my other Red Eye and into its own channel of the PA board.

If I want to plug a third guitar in I can use the second channel of my RedEye Twin, but the two guitars plugged into the RedEye Twin will share one channel on the mixing board as well as sharing the EQ of that channel.

Ultimately I'm going to need a third Red Eye Preamp.

Or is there another way that I'm not thinking of?

And what are you guys who have two or three guitars onstage using to turn your guitars on and off? Or do you just count on the soundperson to do that for you?

But what if there is no soundperson - what if you're the soundperson?

I guess if I had three guitars onstage I could have three little on/off pedals - one for each guitar.

Is that how you're doing it?
__________________
Taylor 512...Taylor 710B...Blueridge BR163...Blueridge BR183a...all with K&K's & used w/RedEye preamps

Seagull CW w/Baggs M1 pickup...National Vintage Steel Tricone...SWR California Blonde Amp
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:08 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,097
Default

I only use two although I have three.

I use a Headway preamp (incidental) and know what I consider to be the default settings for each guitar - they are not that different. I have the preamp close by so I can tweak EQ if ask need to.

I prefer this as I feel (probably without foundation) that I will have more control if the sound guy is bonkers.

That being said I often find myself suggesting that the engineer takes some of the Mids down. I never cease to be amazed by some of the sounds that at me through monitors!

Of course, if I was rich or famous I could have my own engineer :-)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:19 AM
JStotes JStotes is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa, OK area
Posts: 649
Default Question for Larry (ljguitar) and those who use multiple guitars onstage...

Hey Gypsy,
I sometimes use 3 guitars when performing.
I use the Red Eye Twin as my main pre. I have K&K pickups in my guitars.

With the twin pre, I use two similar guitars so the EQ is not an issue. I have the on board volume control on one guitar so when not using the twin pre, I simply have the non volume control equipped guitar in the off channel and turn the volume off on the other one.

My other guitar is plugged in using an Archangel pre with has a mute button. To use a Red Eye pre the easiest fix is to have a guitar with on board volume you can turn down to "off".
It's cheap and easy to add the volume control to your K&K equipped guitar.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:32 AM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JStotes View Post
Hey Gypsy,
I sometimes use 3 guitars when performing.
I use the Red Eye Twin as my main pre. I have K&K pickups in my guitars.

With the twin pre, I use two similar guitars so the EQ is not an issue. I have the on board volume control on one guitar so when not using the twin pre, I simply have the non volume control equipped guitar in the off channel and turn the volume off on the other one.

My other guitar is plugged in using an Archangel pre with has a mute button. To use a Red Eye pre the easiest fix is to have a guitar with on board volume you can turn down to "off".
It's cheap and easy to add the volume control to your K&K equipped guitar.
Thanks!

That's very similar to the way I've been doing it up until recently. I use two small bodied guitars (Taylor 512 & Blueridge BR163) plugged into the Red Eye Twin. And they're similar enough that it works OK.

If I gig with just one guitar I can use my RedEye Twin as the on/off control.

If only one guitar is plugged into the RedEye Twin, I can plug it into the "A" input and I can switch to the "B" input and if another guitar is not plugged into the "B" input then it's "off".

But if I want to bring my dreadnaught (Taylor 710B) it sounds to different from either of my small bodied guitars for it to share the Red Eye Twin. The 710B needs its own channel on the mixing board.

That's why I purchased another Red Eye...but not the Twin version. Just the single channel version.
__________________
Taylor 512...Taylor 710B...Blueridge BR163...Blueridge BR183a...all with K&K's & used w/RedEye preamps

Seagull CW w/Baggs M1 pickup...National Vintage Steel Tricone...SWR California Blonde Amp
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:32 AM
kydave kydave is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Louisville transplant in Silicon Valley
Posts: 12,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsyblue View Post
I use two guitars onstage and have been using the RedEye Twin preamp...but I want to start using three guitars.

In order for each guitar to have it's own channel on the mixing board that requires three different preamps, each with its own XLR output.

I like the Red Eye preamps and just purchased another one - the single channel version.

Now when I have two guitars onstage I can plug one guitar into my RedEye Twin and run its output to one channel of the PA board and the other guitar into my other Red Eye and into its own channel of the PA board.

If I want to plug a third guitar in I can use the second channel of my RedEye Twin, but the two guitars plugged into the RedEye Twin will share one channel on the mixing board as well as sharing the EQ of that channel.

Ultimately I'm going to need a third Red Eye Preamp.

Or is there another way that I'm not thinking of?

And what are you guys who have two or three guitars onstage using to turn your guitars on and off? Or do you just count on the soundperson to do that for you?

But what if there is no soundperson - what if you're the soundperson?

I guess if I had three guitars onstage I could have three little on/off pedals - one for each guitar.

Is that how you're doing it?
Not three guitars, but I use a D-28, a Dobro and a mandolin - all with pickups... they each go through their own preamp and their own board channel.

Each instrument has a volume pedal which essentially serves as both a lead boost and a mute to prevent feedback when not playing that instrument.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:37 AM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
Not three guitars, but I use a D-28, a Dobro and a mandolin - all with pickups... they each go through their own preamp and their own board channel.

Each instrument has a volume pedal which essentially serves as both a lead boost and a mute to prevent feedback when not playing that instrument.
So that seems to be the ticket: each guitar needs either its own internal volume control or an on/off switch.

Kind of what I thought.
__________________
Taylor 512...Taylor 710B...Blueridge BR163...Blueridge BR183a...all with K&K's & used w/RedEye preamps

Seagull CW w/Baggs M1 pickup...National Vintage Steel Tricone...SWR California Blonde Amp
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:37 AM
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,132
Default

I'm not a huge pre-amp expert, so I may be missing something, but why not go for a Mackie 1202?



Each channel has seperate EQ, volume (and trim), FX controls, and most importantly, each channel can be muted. I have one, and it easily fits on a standard music stand. They are super-quiet (I've recorded with mine).

Seems like this would be a super-easy answer, but once again, I'm no expert.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:57 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 42,556
Default

Hi GBlue…

The times I have more than one guitar along, I use the same preamp/blender for all of them…unless I'm going to play both at the same time (a guest or other player using one of their own, or one of mine).

I just hit the 'mute', unplug at the guitar, switch, plug in the other guitar, tweak the tone a smidgen (they all use pretty similar tone profiles), un-mute and I'm good to go. All this can be done in about 10-15 seconds.

I don't need unique preamps for each guitar. And I'd thing that would be even more true when using Redeye since they have pretty limited adjustability.

All my guitars are rigged identically with K&K Pure Mini and K&K internal mic. I use one of my blenders as my external preamp and to feed the board. Sound techs have enough to think about, so I keep it simple for them.




__________________

Baby #1.1
Baby #1.2
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Baby #05

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:57 AM
donh donh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,412
Default

I just use one RedEye with a tuner plugged in to the loop. When I change guitars, I mute with the tuner. My instruments vary widely in tone, but all have similar output levels so all I need is the boost button. With my setup I have no need to fiddle with EQ settings, other than a bit of fiddling based upon the room I'm in - I just plug in and play.
.
__________________
-donh-

*everything* is a tone control
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-16-2015, 10:15 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 42,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
…Seems like this would be a super-easy answer, but once again, I'm no expert.
Hi PPG…

Many of us own mixers, and if we were to add one into the equation, we'd still feel the need for a preamp/blender between the guitar and the mixer. That's especially true of people with dual source systems where the blender provides power back to the internal mic.

A mixer on stage (no matter how nice) does-not/would-not simplify my stage work.

A mixer would just be one more thing between me and the house system - a needless and tedious thing between me and the house techs. If I were to run a separate mixer on stage, and carry multiple blenders, I'd still need to mix and SEND a combined feed (or split feed) to the main PA in venues where the house PA mixer is not on the stage.

I'd also have to TEND the mixer when I switched instruments (hitting mutes, or using volume pedals like kyDave)

In addition, I monitor everything through a single stage amplifier, so multiple preamps and a mixer on stage would require me tap dancing at the mixer while switching guitars. Who is supposed to tend the mixer on stage? This is starting to sound like I need to be an octopus to operate it all.

There were time in my youth I did run complex stage rigs.
My reputation was established as to how efficiently I could run my sound on stage, but the attention was not on the music. I didn't want to be known as a great stage technician.

The improvement of modern equipment, and the venues where I work/play not demanding that I operate with seamless split-second precision like large stage acts with techs taking away and handing guitars to an artist have helped me simplify my stage rigs.

Where I used to roll/carry in 2-3 rack units from a trailer towed to shows, I now carry in a single gear bag…which is a fancy name for a green canvas tool bag which holds everything I need for simple gigs, or a single over the shoulder Taylor Gear Bag for more elaborate ones.

This is all part of my "One-Trip-From-the-Car-to-the-Gig-Without-Compromising-My-Sound" approach.



__________________

Baby #1.1
Baby #1.2
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Baby #05

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-16-2015, 11:02 AM
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi PPG…

Many of us own mixers, and if we were to add one into the equation, we'd still feel the need for a preamp/blender between the guitar and the mixer. That's especially true of people with dual source systems where the blender provides power back to the internal mic.

A mixer on stage (no matter how nice) does-not/would-not simplify my stage work.

A mixer would just be one more thing between me and the house system - a needless and tedious thing between me and the house techs. If I were to run a separate mixer on stage, and carry multiple blenders, I'd still need to mix and SEND a combined feed (or split feed) to the main PA in venues where the house PA mixer is not on the stage.

I'd also have to TEND the mixer when I switched instruments (hitting mutes, or using volume pedals like kyDave)

In addition, I monitor everything through a single stage amplifier, so multiple preamps and a mixer on stage would require me tap dancing at the mixer while switching guitars. Who is supposed to tend the mixer on stage? This is starting to sound like I need to be an octopus to operate it all.

There were time in my youth I did run complex stage rigs.
My reputation was established as to how efficiently I could run my sound on stage, but the attention was not on the music. I didn't want to be known as a great stage technician.

The improvement of modern equipment, and the venues where I work/play not demanding that I operate with seamless split-second precision like large stage acts with techs taking away and handing guitars to an artist have helped me simplify my stage rigs.

Where I used to roll/carry in 2-3 rack units from a trailer towed to shows, I now carry in a single gear bag…which is a fancy name for a green canvas tool bag which holds everything I need for simple gigs, or a single over the shoulder Taylor Gear Bag for more elaborate ones.

This is all part of my "One-Trip-From-the-Car-to-the-Gig-Without-Compromising-My-Sound" approach.



Thanks for your explanation Larry!

Like I said, I'm no expert. I don't think I've ever carried more than one guitar to a gig. I've only played through an active or passive DI boxes. I've never messed with those DI boxes that have EQ's and stuff on them - ever.

I think the only time I've had multiple amplified instruments, I've used my Mackie. I would play my hammered dulcimer (two condensers mics) and my Taylor (1/4" plug). It just simplified everything for me because I didn't have to rely on a sound guy to mute my guitar whenever I was taking it on and off.

Thanks again!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-16-2015, 11:07 AM
Dan Lampton Dan Lampton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 345
Default

I play my steel string 000, resonator, and mandolin through the same preamp. Sounds guys like it because they only have to deal with one channel and one monitor send for my whole set up.
If you need more than one EQ setting for your instruments why not use a graphic eq pedal for each guitar? Add them to the Red-Eye loop and just turn on the eq you need for that particular guitar. Stick a tuner pedal in the loop as well and you can mute while making instrument changes. One preamp, three separate eqs, one mixer channel. Maybe a possibility.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-16-2015, 11:19 AM
noledog's Avatar
noledog noledog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi GBlue…

The times I have more than one guitar along, I use the same preamp/blender for all of them…unless I'm going to play both at the same time (a guest or other player using one of their own, or one of mine).

I just hit the 'mute', unplug at the guitar, switch, plug in the other guitar, tweak the tone a smidgen (they all use pretty similar tone profiles), un-mute and I'm good to go. All this can be done in about 10-15 seconds.

I don't need unique preamps for each guitar. And I'd thing that would be even more true when using Redeye since they have pretty limited adjustability.

All my guitars are rigged identically with K&K Pure Mini and K&K internal mic. I use one of my blenders as my external preamp and to feed the board. Sound techs have enough to think about, so I keep it simple for them.


+1 LJ...I pretty much do this with my Tak KC70 & Martin D18 thru two Fishman Performers run in tandem:
__________________
NOLE TUNES & Coastal Acoustic Music one love jam!
Martin D18 & 3 lil' birdz; Takamine KC70, P3NC x 2
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-16-2015, 06:15 PM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,606
Default

Thanks everyone!

I do have a nice little Behringer mixer but I only use it for club gigs and smallish gatherings where I am the sound man and I'm providing the PA.

I use it for vocal mics and for my guitars and then I feed the output to the XLR input on California Blonde PA/Acoustic guitar amp.

But I'd never use it at church or for more of a concert type setting where there's a sound man available sitting in the back of the room with a big mixing board.

I'm of the mind that it sounds better to have as little as possible between my acoustic guitar and the main mixing board - just my guitar preamp or preamps.
__________________
Taylor 512...Taylor 710B...Blueridge BR163...Blueridge BR183a...all with K&K's & used w/RedEye preamps

Seagull CW w/Baggs M1 pickup...National Vintage Steel Tricone...SWR California Blonde Amp

Last edited by Gypsyblue; 01-16-2015 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-16-2015, 06:38 PM
kydave kydave is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Louisville transplant in Silicon Valley
Posts: 12,500
Default

If you're playing solo acoustic it isn't important, but in my acoustic band it is nice to subtly boost for leads.

For that purpose, on my guitar, I use the Morley Plus volume pedal. It's electronic eye rather than volume pot, so very clean. It has a control setting the minimum volume (Full forward is always max volume, but full back may be off or very close to full forward - thus no need for finessing the volume pedal). I have the difference between full back (rhythm) and full forward (lead) so there is not a radical boost, in keeping with the acoustic setting... more like leaning into the mic, but without the mic.

It has a button to bypass that function so that full back is off regardless of control setting. Effectively, that is my mute when grabbing another instrument.

Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=