The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:09 AM
pjroberts pjroberts is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Napa Valley
Posts: 2,280
Default

I was just about to ask what the Gravity material is when your comment came in, though I was more tempted to ask what unctuous means instead (excessively or ingratiatingly flattering; oily). Gravity calls it acrylic, but that is very general. Unlike the Ultex and Clayton Ultems (I like both for different applications and thought they were the same also due to material consistency and color), Gravity does not offer any thinner picks in their sampler pack, so I have not been able to compare them. I would really like to try a thinner Gravity pick, something in the .70 weight.
__________________


martin D-28A '37 | D-18 | SCGC H13 | gibson SJ-200
taylor 814ce | 855 | GS Mini H.V. | goodall RP14 | Halcyon SJ

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:22 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Posts: 31,164
Default

Thanks.

I'm actually not much of a fan of experimenting with different materials for use with my instruments, simply because I love the tone of celluloid and like the sound of Blue Chip picks almost as much.

Most of the various other plastic materials I've tried, such as Tortex, have either done something disconcerting, like starting to bend slightly and stay cupped that way, like some gnarled old tree:


or else I just flat haven't liked the way these other picks sound.

Which is the case with most of them.

But I thought I'd give the Ultem picks a try, if for no other reason than to cross them off the list.

Thanks for all the comments so far.


Wade Hampton Miller
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-01-2015, 06:23 AM
HHP HHP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
Acetal is a family of plastics, and Delrin/Delrex is in it. There are also other acetal plastics that go by different trade names.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Ultem is also an acetal plastic. Ultem is the trade name that the plastics manufacturer uses. Ultex is Dunlop's proprietary name for their picks made of Ultem. Confusing, huh?
"Ultex" and "Ultem" sound more like names for contraceptives.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-01-2015, 10:58 AM
dangrunloh dangrunloh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 315
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
Acetal is a family of plastics, and Delrin/Delrex is in it. There are also other acetal plastics that go by different trade names.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Ultem is also an acetal plastic. Ultem is the trade name that the plastics manufacturer uses. Ultex is Dunlop's proprietary name for their picks made of Ultem. Confusing, huh?
It is confusing. A white Clayton Acetal sounds completely different than a Clayton Ultem. They may be in the same family but the material is different. I slightly round and bevel all my heavier picks. You can't always compare them directly out of the bag as they have different edge styles. The Clayton white acetals actually have square edges! They sound pretty bad until you round the edges; then they are very mellow.

I have compared Ultrex and Ultem in the full range of sizes. Some of the sizes don't coincide in those two brands. The material is identical but the Claytons are just a little more flexible. You can go to a heavier size in the Claytons and still get enough flex for a good feel in the pick whereas the Dunlops will be completely stiff.

I seem to prefer the Clayton Ultems. When both types are rounded and speed beveled, the Ultems sound nicer to me. Clayton has a 1.07 thickness that has just the right flex for me. Dunlop has no equivalent
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-01-2015, 08:43 PM
DjFuzzyMcPickle's Avatar
DjFuzzyMcPickle DjFuzzyMcPickle is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Okay, thanks for all the answers so far.

Last night I decided to try some Ultem picks and ordered some Taylor Ultems. How have you all who've tried these Taylor Ultem picks liked them, and how do they compare with these other companies' versions?

Obviously, I'll find out for myself soon enough, but I'm curious to hear what you other folks who have experience with them have to say. Wade Hampton Miller
I actually like the Taylor Ultems a lot!! Actually one of my favorite picks overall and definitely like better than the gravity's (the next price point up to the 5$ a piece range). I do like the V picks as well even more than the gravity's even though they appear to be very similar (actually have very little respect for the gravity's company currently based on some valid information regarding how it was started) . Only bought two so not a big loss. But yes... dig the Taylor a lot. Have a slightly gritty feel in a good way.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-01-2015, 11:14 PM
akafloyd akafloyd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: albert lea, mn
Posts: 1,342
Default

I keep going back to the Dunlop Ultex 1.14mm. I like how they release the string so cleanly. For some reason there are days, though, when a Fender heavy sounds better, so I keep some of them handy, but the Ultex is still my favorite most of the time.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:31 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY - for now
Posts: 14,983
Default

Ultex and Ultem - wasn't this a SNL routine back in the '70s...?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-02-2015, 09:23 AM
bancika bancika is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Serbia
Posts: 549
Default

I think they are the same thing. Differences you hear between different brands are more likely caused by different shape/bevel/thickness.

Btw, it's one of my favorite materials, too. I find it very natural sounding and physically tough and durable. Acrylic that gravity uses is very different I think...not as much sonically. It's maybe a bit brighter sounding but feels differently and wears out differently.
__________________
Cort AS-E4
Taylor GS Mini Mahogany
--
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-02-2015, 11:01 AM
Phantoj Phantoj is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 665
Default

Delrin and Ultem are the names for the materials given by the manufacturers (DuPont and SABIC, respectively). Pick companies like to create their own names for some reason (marketing?): "Tortex" is Dunlop's name for Delrin and "Deltex" is D'Andrea's. Likewise, "Ultex" is Dunlop's name for Ultem.

FWIW, I think Dunlop only uses "Tortex" for matte-finished Delrin.

I believe the Clayton teardrops are a tad bigger than the standard Dunlop teardrop, so if you compare Ultex to Ultem, you may find that is a factor.

Ultex, Ultem, either way it's my favorite pick material!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-02-2015, 11:39 AM
kydave kydave is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Louisville transplant in Silicon Valley
Posts: 12,500
Default

Yep, they're the same material, different gauges and finish account for the appearance and sound between Clayton & Dunlop.

During my searches I came across an interesting statement by Clayton, apropos of people talking about lifespan of picks (normal price) and the cost of Blue Chips:

(Steve Clayton's product development criteria) a list of what would be necessary for this (product) to be successful.
Quote:
The list was the following:

- It had to be non-perishable.

- Had to be small, because I did not have warehouse room at the time.

- Had to already have an in place structure for distribution.

- Had to be a consumable product meaning the same person would buy it more then once.
Designed obsolescence!

Which is why the Blue Chips are not as expensive as seems.

Also the family of materials is similar but different (obviously):

Ultem/Ultex = polyetherimide

Blue Chip = polyimide
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-14-2015, 09:05 PM
kydave kydave is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Louisville transplant in Silicon Valley
Posts: 12,500
Default

This thread got me curious, so I ordered some.

Pictured below is a .94mm Ultem and 1.00mm Ultex, the closest I could get.

As I remembered, when new and looking at them in person, they look very much alike, even more so than the photo.

Virtually no difference in the sound.



Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-14-2015, 11:33 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Posts: 31,164
Default

I'm glad you revived the thread, Dave, because I received the Taylor Ultem picks a few days ago and have given them a try. One of the reasons I ordered them was that the Taylor Ultem mediums are .80, which is close to the .84 celluloid medium-heavies I normally use.

I wanted to see whether the Taylor Ultem mediums have the same slight amount of flex that I prefer.

I was correct about that - there's a bit of flex, not much, about the same as the D'Andrea Classic Celluloid medium-heavies that I use on everything and also very similar to the Blue Chip TD-35.

What I was less thrilled with was the tonal characteristics of the Taylor Ultems. They work and they're fine and all that, but I don't like the sound all that much, frankly.

What I have in the case pockets of the instruments I use the most are tiny ziplock bags with ten to twenty picks in them, mostly celluloid medium-heavies. But the white celluloid is a bit stiffer than the tortoiseshell celluloid, and I have a few heavies and other picks in those bags, as well. So I have some choices there, which I exercise depending on what tone and attack I want on any given song.

I think I'm going to divvy these Taylor Ultem picks up so that I have one in most of these little pick bags, so I have that tonal option should I so choose.

But it's not a sound I want on most of the music I play. Celluloid first and foremost and Blue Chip after that work better for me.

Many players feel that tortoiseshell picks are best. I used to use some genuine tortoiseshell picks, back in olden times when you could still find a few of them in the parts boxes at older music stores. I picked up some in Japan during the mid-1980's, as well.

As it happens, I was using a tortoiseshell pick when I won the US Mountain Dulcimer Championship in Winfield, Kansas, in 1980. But the one I used that day was one of the thinner tortoiseshell picks that had a bit of flex to it, yes, that was very similar to the flex that celluloid medium-heavies have.

The problem with those thinner tortoiseshell picks is that eventually all that I had broke. The thicker ones that bluegrass players favor nowadays won't break like that but feel as though I'm playing with a marble chip. The tone on those doesn't do all that much for me, either.

So for me the Holy Grail of tone in a flat pick is not tortoiseshell, however fashionable that might be. For me the best-sounding picks really are celluloid, because they have a sweetness to them that nothing else I've tried has ever matched, not even tortoiseshell.

So it's all a matter of personal taste, I know. (I'm not a big fan of Brazilian rosewood, either...) However heretical that might sound, that's what works best for me.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-15-2015, 10:25 AM
sjino sjino is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 699
Default

Speaking of Ultex, Dunlop has a new line of Ultex picks called Primetone, available in both standard finish and grippy finish. The standard ones are sort of reddish brown, and the grippy ones are roughly the same color as Ricola lozenges.

I tried a bunch of them in various gauges and shapes, and as a longtime standard Ultex user (the picks with a rhino on them), I found that they sound different than the standard Dunlop Ultex picks I've been using. Actually, I like the Primetones a lot, and they're my new favorite.

Too bad they're kind of expensive. Not Blue Chip expensive, but a little more than twice as much as standard Ultex picks. ($4.99 for 3 at Strings and Beyond, my favorite vendor for strings and picks.)

I don't know what Dunlop does to make the Primetones sound different (to me, better,) than the standard Ultex picks, but for me it works. Check them out!

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-15-2015, 12:30 PM
kydave kydave is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Louisville transplant in Silicon Valley
Posts: 12,500
Default

Wade,

Have you tried the light Blue Chip 35 pick, in the shape of your preference.

From what you've said, that sounds right up your alley.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-15-2015, 12:41 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Posts: 31,164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
Wade,

Have you tried the light Blue Chip 35 pick, in the shape of your preference.

From what you've said, that sounds right up your alley.

Dave
Yes, I've got a couple of TD-35's. For mandolin in particular I really like them, because they don't get chewed up and rough along the edges the way that celluloid picks do. (The double-strung courses on mandolin really abrade the celluloid, unfortunately.) There's a hair less treble response to them than to the celluloid medium-heavies I mostly use, but that's easily corrected with my right hand attack.

I also like the Blue Chip TD-35 on my McAlister baritone, but to a lesser extent on standard guitar and mountain dulcimer. I use the TD-35 on those two instruments occasionally, but really prefer the celluloid picks on them for most of my playing.


whm
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=