How much effect can slopey shoulders really have?

[RJVB]

This is just curiosity about something that I've always wondered about and now that Michael Watts posted the video below I feel compelled to ask ...



I find that a rather surprising advice coming from him if not only because he claims the shape to be comfortable while AFAIK he's said the opposite about regular dreads.

But that just adds to my interrogations: is there more that's different in these guitars than just the round-off radius of the shoulders? Could it be that we hear the rounder voice with our eyes ... or that we actually hear a different voicing with the shoulder shape mostly a visual label?

(The shoulder shape thing always also reminds me of a user interface design aspect ...)

[William2]

I have two dreadnoughts. One is a Larrivee SD-40RW (slope shoulder) and the other is a Larrivee D-40RW. For me, the difference I hear is in the 12-fret vs 14-fret neck connection. I can get the same quality of sound out of each, but the SD-40RW has an easier response and a more open sound that the 14-fret dreadnought doesn't have. SD-40RW also has a 15" lower bout which I find to be more comfortable to hold.

[RJVB]

Yes, a narrower lower bout would explain a lot - keeping the shape constant that would mean a smaller guitar. Not unlike a GA vs. a jumbo, in fact.

[jaymarsch]

I’m definitely a fan of slope shoulder guitars though 16” wide dreads are not kind to my shoulder. :-) The two most versatile instruments that I play are small slope shoulder models by Sparky Kramer. Both are 15 inches wide at the lower bout but one has a shallower body depth. One is long scale, one short scale. Great tone and versatility in a comfortable shape and size. Both of mine are 14 fret but I would love to have a 12 fret model but I already have a Wingert 12 fret deep body grand concert that is outstanding.
Thanks for the video. That Santa Cruz slope is beautiful - especially in the skilled hands of Michael Watts.
Best,
Jayne

[Steve DeRosa]

Guitar keeps sliding off when I stand up to play - chiropractor recommended some exercises that might help...

[jim1960]

Not so much that I can overcome my dislike of the slope body shape.

[LAPlayer]

I guess it will be different with every builder's "slope-shoulder" dread. For example if I put two of the guitars in question ( a Gibson slope-shoulder and a Martin dread) together, the Gibson J45 (Keb' Mo' 3.0 model) is much smaller than my Martin dreads.

Compare:

Martin D28 - wider at the shoulders (not a big deal), slightly narrower and the lower bout (again no big deal) but much deeper at the tailblock.

Gibson J45 Keb' Mo', which is more akin to a Southern Jumbo dimensions, has a 3.9375" depth at the tailblock compared to the Martin' 4.875" tailblock depth.
At the heel the Gibson is 4.125" vs. 4.5". When seated, almost a full inch at the tail/rear bout is huge. Funny enough the Gibson is one of the loudest guitars i've played. Size matters.

[zmf]

I'm hopelessly biased in favor of his conclusion, since the SCGC VS has been my go-to for 15 years.

But the VS feels smaller/lighter, and sounds sweeter, than J-45 that inspired it. Wonder how much you can really generalize across the many brands of slope shoulders.

[Br1ck]

My 65 Epiphone Texan has a big thump bass and a crisp somewhat metallic high end thanks to its ceramic bridge. It is long scale so that contributes to its snappy tone. I use it to sing with and for that it's perfect. Nothing works as good for palm muting the bass strings with a heavy pick attack. I hear that train a coming.....

The J 45, especially a modern one, has the short scale warmth singers like so well. Both are slopes, but very different guitars.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Guitar keeps sliding off when I stand up to play - chiropractor recommended some exercises that might help...

Forget the chiropractor just take a 2 x 4 cut it to fit from the base of your skull to your tailbone Place it behind you and strap 3 belts around you. One at your waist, one at your arm pits, and last one around your neck. That should fix it

[abn556]

I had been playing a lot of 00 and 000(OM) guitars over the past few years. I recently bought a J-45 Koa and was surprised by just how much louder the J-45 is in my music room than the 00 and 000 sized guitars. Its noticeably louder and has a lot more bottom end to it.

[movehome]

"Sweetness you get in a slope shoulder instrument that you just don't get in regular dreadnoughts"

I like watching these Michael Watts videos, but everything he says really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He's always struck me as a salesperson kinda Youtuber (he actually is a salesman too right?). Everything he plays is "adored," "magnificent," etc. Same as most of the other guitar reviewers & salespeople I guess.

[JKA]

Originally Posted by movehome

"Sweetness you get in a slope shoulder instrument that you just don't get in regular dreadnoughts"

I like watching these Michael Watts videos, but everything he says really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He's always struck me as a salesperson kinda Youtuber (he actually is a salesman too right?). Everything he plays is "adored," "magnificent," etc. Same as most of the other guitar reviewers & salespeople I guess.

Ouch! Who is he selling for?

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by movehome

Everything he plays is "adored," "magnificent," etc.

How often have you caught him playing an instrument that shouldn't be magnificent just because of its pedigree/price?

Originally Posted by abn556

was surprised by just how much louder the J-45 is in my music room than the 00 and 000 sized guitars.

Strumming, maybe? I have an opposite experience with fingerpicking, where I was surprised how loud a copy of an early 19th C. romantic guitar sounded in a room compared to my nylon-strung resonator. I've heard others say similar things about small guitars, and the 16" (mini) jumbo I had for a while only sounded loud when strummed. That one also sounded a lot less loud to the player than to a listener, so there's that.

[Guitars44me]

“
“I guess it will be different with every builder's "slope-shoulder" dread. For example if I put two of my slope-shoulders together, the Gibson J45 (Keb' Mo' 3.0 model) is much smaller than my Martin dreads.

Compare:

Martin D28 - wider at the shoulders (not a big deal), slightly narrower and the lower bout (again no big deal) but much deeper at the tailblock.

Gibson J45 Keb' Mo', which is more akin to a Southern Jumbo dimensions, has a 3.9375" depth at the tailblock compared to the Martin' 4.875" tailblock depth.
At the heel the Gibson is 4.125" vs. 4.5". When seated, almost a full inch at the tail/rear bout is huge. Funny enough the Gibson is one of the loudest guitars i've played. Size matters.”



??? This is confusing….

A D28 is not usually slope shoulder.

And isn’t the tailblock the butt end of the guitar?
Are we talking about the neck heel?

And the Keb Mo is louder, even though less cubic inches? Perhaps a larger top and back surface ???

Interesting thread, and I am hoping someone can clarify this

I have heard a lot of good stuff about the Keb Mo 3.0 but have not played one.

Cheers

Paul