Yamaha LL56 & Ryan Cathedral

[Ps346]

A strange title for a thread, I know, but I would appreciate feedback on this topic if anyone has relevant thoughts. I value the level of knowledge and expertise of many on this site, and I have benefited greatly from it over the years.

Long story short: I have commissioned a Ryan Cathedral (Cedar/EIR) that will be delivered late fall of this year. I now have an LL56 in my possession. Initially, I didn't think I would keep it, but now I am seriously thinking of keeping this guitar as well as the Ryan Cathedral that I will possess in the fall.

I have a custom built dreadnought (Italian Alpine/Madrose) that I have had for 10-15 years. I also have a GS Mini for my wife and a low-end Yamaha as a beater.

The LL56 has, I think, what most would consider to be a balanced "modern" sound: sweet trebles, clean mids, and a controlled low end. Many might also consider this to be a typically Japanese sound.

I compared the LL56 (blindly, with help of my wife) to a Huss & Dalton, several Lowdens, two Santa Cruzes, a very nice Brazilian Bedell, several high-end Breedloves , a Martin, a Furch, a McPherson ... that's about it.

This Yamaha compared favorably to all of the above guitars. This is *by no means* a knock on any of them as I love every one. But the fact that the $4.7K LL56 compared at or above the level of many guitars significantly higher in price (many in the $7.2K --> $11.2K range) says something about the resonance and bloom of this wonderful guitar – and the great value for the price.

My dreadnought has a very clear tone, with great note-to-note separation. The Yamaha is more of a rounded tone – as I know the Ryan Cathedral will be. I guess I have come to appreciate this. Formally, I valued clarity. Now, clarity almost strikes me as a bit of a "thin" sound.

I believe (as did my wife, who is very artistic) that the bloom of the LL56 was – although different – comparable with the Lowdens.

The playability of the LL56 is right up there with the best Taylors and McPhersons that I have played. It is almost effortless to play. (I admit that I do not like heavier, beefier necks.)

By the way, I am an intermediate player.

Question: Do you think that LL56 would be a good "compliment" to the Ryan Cathedral? I know the Ryan Cathedral will be a *BIG* sound, with a thunderous base and a richness and fullness that brings it to a different level. (I played one once, and I have heard many of them on YouTube.)

Anyway, this is what I am wondering about. I never thought I would be one with a "herd," but I realize now that I may be on the verge of owning a mini one.

Any thoughts about the LL56, the Cathedral, or the two together would be appreciated.

[Ps346]

I should mention that, yes, I am an intermediate player, and I play with various fingerpicking styles where I use only the flesh of my fingertips. I never strum or use a pic. Therefore, I value responsiveness to a soft touch. The softer Engelmann Spruce top of the LL56 is thus a real plus.

[Mobilemike]

Do you have to decide now? Can you wait until you have them both in your possession and can play them back to back?

[Proclaimer888]

I will tell you this. I own a Yamaha LL36 and besides the top-notch quality of the build, the sound is absolutely something to "write home about". I would love to see a few sound comparisons between the high-end Yamaha and some of the boutique guitars.

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

Do you have to decide now? Can you wait until you have them both in your possession and can play them back to back?

I have until May 8th to decide on the LL56.

I put myself on the "notify" list with Sweetwater. The sales engineer stated that they were not expecting them for about two months – then they got one within a week.

I had him send it out. Initially, I thought it wasn't that spectacular a guitar, and I intended to send it back. It can seem quite unremarkable at first because nothing stands out – like, for example, the boomy base of an HD28. But it really grows on you. It has a wonderfully sweet, balanced tone, and it is so, so easy to play.

It was during this time that I realized that one could get a commissioned Ryan for "only" $12K. I always thought (never checked!) that these would go for a minimum of $20K.

[TheGITM]

I can't speak directly, having never had the opportunity to play an LL56, but from everything I read and hear about the high-end Yamaha stuff you can't find that kind of value in any other brand today. Everyone is saying the top of line Yamaha are punching way above their weight class, rivaling some of the best true 'bench-made' guitars out there.

If you love the guitar, you should keep it. I'm not sure you will find that level of guitar at that price point anywhere else.

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by Proclaimer888

I will tell you this. I own a Yamaha LL36 and besides the top-notch quality of the build, the sound is absolutely something to "write home about". I would love to see a few sound comparisons between the high-end Yamaha and some of the boutique guitars.

Oh, I *know* that the high-end Yamahas compare favorably with the boutique guitars. I AB'd them. 🙂

Funny story: Of all the guitars at this one shop (I may buy a guitar from them as well – very nice people there), I liked an $11.2K Lowden the best, but my wife liked a $7.2K Huss & Dalton.

When I returned to the shop with the LL56, I had my wife sit with her back to me. I told her that I would play each guitar (the H&D and Yamaha), and I asked her to tell me which one she liked best. I happened to grab the H&D first, and I played it. She said, "I know that's the Huss & Dalton." (She *really* liked this guitar. &#128578

I had been playing the LL56 for at least a week by this time, and I had gotten to know its tone quite well. I knew that its tone was richer and fuller than that of the Huss & Dalton I just played. Anyway, I then grabbed the Yamaha and played it. My wife said, "No, *THAT'S* the Huss & Dalton."

She was completely blown away when she turned around and saw that I was playing the Yamaha.

No question that the LL56 (and the LL36 as well, I'm sure) is a wonderful guitar with such a lush, sweet, balanced tone.

[TomB'sox]

I am on Sweetwater's wait list for an LL56 so I think you should return it and maybe I will get an email, BTW, take care of it just in case it comes to me LOL.

You will love the Ryan, he is a great guy and his guitars are simply awesome.

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

I can't speak directly, having never had the opportunity to play an LL56, but from everything I read and hear about the high-end Yamaha stuff you can't find that kind of value in any other brand today. Everyone is saying the top of line Yamaha are punching way above their weight class, rivaling some of the best true 'bench-made' guitars out there.

If you love the guitar, you should keep it. I'm not sure you will find that level of guitar at that price point anywhere else.

Yes, they do seem to be punching way above their weight class, and I am coming to believe that you are correct that one simply cannot get this level of guitar at this price point anywhere else. (I am not one who minds in the least having the word "Yamaha" on the headstock.)

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

I am on Sweetwater's wait list for an LL56 so I think you should return it and maybe I will get an email, BTW, take care of it just in case it comes to me LOL.

You will love the Ryan, he is a great guy and his guitars are simply awesome.

Well, it's looking more and more that I will keep this one, but when they get the next one, I don't think you will be disappointed. Give it at least a week – it really grows on you !!!

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Proclaimer888

I will tell you this. I own a Yamaha LL36 and besides the top-notch quality of the build, the sound is absolutely something to "write home about". I would love to see a few sound comparisons between the high-end Yamaha and some of the boutique guitars.

I also own an LL36. For me, the very best acoustic guitar I ever laid hands on. This is a comment well past the honeymoon period and not on any level of hyperbole. Easily outpaced my now-gone D-41 on virtually every comparison possible. Better fit and finish, by about 100 miles, with better sonics (although to be fair the D-41 can low-end boom with the best of them.

The feel of the L-series and FG9 series is so very difficult to articulate in words. There is a lingering palpable, wonderful spirit about it which I attribute to the luthier and the passion and love he/she must have poured into the build process The dynamics I think fool folks. It's not a one-trick sonic pony. Play super light touched and it'll respond and in spades, hit it reasonably hard, and the sonics change to the adjustment. Sometimes rather than play I still occasionally just pick the thing up and hold it.

I know calling it a "work of art" can be off-putting for some, myself included, but until you put an LL series or the FG9 series into your lap I dunno how else to articulate, especially for those familiar with higher-end acoustic guitars. It still pains me to the core when I see comments about how it fits in price-wise. The statement "pretty good for the money" means a singular observation: that is the poster hasn't yet played the instrument.

The LL36 is a ten thousand dollar guitar all wrapped up for thirty-five hundred bucks, and the FG9 series is equally lopsided as to the price structure, kinda easy to see why things get confusing.

Truly an enigma.

[Railroad Bum]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I also own an LL36. For me, the very best acoustic guitar I ever laid hands on. This is a comment well past the honeymoon period and not on any level of hyperbole. Easily outpaced my now-gone D-41 on virtually every comparison possible. Better fit and finish, by about 100 miles, with better sonics (although to be fair the D-41 can low-end boom with the best of them.

The feel of the L-series and FG9 series is so very difficult to articulate in words. There is a lingering palpable, wonderful spirit about it which I attribute to the luthier and the passion and love he/she must have poured into the build process The dynamics I think fool folks. It's not a one-trick sonic pony. Play super light touched and it'll respond and in spades, hit it reasonably hard, and the sonics change to the adjustment. Sometimes rather than play I still occasionally just pick the thing up and hold it.

I know calling it a "work of art" can be off-putting for some, myself included, but until you put an LL series or the FG9 series into your lap I dunno how else to articulate, especially for those familiar with higher-end acoustic guitars. It still pains me to the core when I see comments about how it fits in price-wise. The statement "pretty good for the money" means a singular observation: that is the poster hasn't yet played the instrument.

The LL36 is a ten thousand dollar guitar all wrapped up for thirty-five hundred bucks, and the FG9 series is equally lopsided as to the price structure, kinda easy to see why things get confusing.

Truly an enigma.

Joseph, that was incredibly well-said. There is a beautiful spirit and an artistry in these guitars that come out of the shop in Hamamatsu, Japan. I have played them all over the years, and they are stunning. The 26, 36, and FG9 are made by the team of luthiers in that shop, and the 56 is only touched by the master luthier, as far as I know. The craziest thing to me about them, and maybe it's just in my head, but after you have played one of them for 15-20 minutes, it starts sounding better and better.

The really crazy thing that I have heard lately is that Yamaha does have the ability to mass produce the FG9 in a factory setting, meaning they could flood the market like Martin does with the D-18 and D-28. But they have chosen to keep it in the custom shop for now and only produce 100-125 per year.

And it is important to remember that Yamaha's entire musical division is only about 10% of their overall business. so they can, have and will continue to experiment with lots of different models and designs.

[247hoopsfan]

Yamaha makes incredible guitars, and their upper end LL26/36/56 are luthier quality. I have owned an LL500 for 20 years, which was the top of the LL series from 1999-2003. Its tone rivals my Goodall Standard and my Brazilian Larrivees. It is the most responsive out of all of them, with a very sweet tone.
But I think you will find the Ryan Cathedral with its cavernous tone to be unique enough to keep both.

[ericcsong]

I own a Ryan Cathedral and you are in for a treat! Congrats!

I can't speak for the Yamaha, but I do notice that its a Jumbo body? I think a good compliment to the Ryan would be a smaller size guitar than the Ryan. Perhaps an OM that is balanced and focused.

Just my opinion after owning a Cathedral for almost 20 years (can't believe its been that long!).

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by ericcsong

I own a Ryan Cathedral and you are in for a treat! Congrats!

I can't speak for the Yamaha, but I do notice that its a Jumbo body? I think a good compliment to the Ryan would be a smaller size guitar than the Ryan. Perhaps an OM that is balanced and focused.

Just my opinion after owning a Cathedral for almost 20 years (can't believe its been that long!).

Yes, I agree that an OM would be a better compliment – thanks for that.

It's just the way this all came about. This is why I find myself in this position.

I do have a set of madrose (long story), and I think a luthier that I've come to know in NC will build an OM for me sometime down the line.

Bosnian over African Blackwood? I'm sure that's not a common combination !!! I thought I knew all the Euros, but Bosnian is a new one for me.

And, yes, I'm very much looking forward to the Ryan Cathedral in the fall.