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  #16  
Old 07-07-2014, 12:56 PM
muzz76 muzz76 is offline
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I wouldn't be surprised to see it go the same Cites direction as Brazilian...ethically, it should be.

The few sets I used to see 10yrs ago I thought were quite attractive...the nicely quartered variety. The majority of what I've seen lately is all slab cut.

EIR is probably about as exciting as I'll get when it comes to Rosewood.
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  #17  
Old 07-07-2014, 01:54 PM
Jim Jim is offline
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There are a number of rosewood species in Madagascar but the one typically used for guitars is Dalbergia baronii (though sometimes there is some Dalbergia maritime mixed in - most people cannot tell the difference).

Madagascar rosewood is controlled by several laws. First it is on Appendix II of the CITES that requires permits from both source and receiving country. Since the 2009 coup in Madagascar that led to, among many other abuses, the wholesale timbering of Madagascar rosewood from the national forests there has been no legitimate government in Madagascar to approve exports so by definition any wood exported from that point on is illegal under CITES.

Another law that is substantial is the Lacey Act in the US. This is the law that says, among other things, that you cannot import into the US any wood that was cut illegally in the country of origin. Clearly Madagascar rosewood or any timber of any species from Madagascar would be illegal to import into the US. There are both civil and felony charges and potentially very large fines for anyone who tries.

There are a number of laws in other countries that are similar.

And there is the moral issue. Do you want a guitar made out of wood that came from a country that is destroying its national parks and forcing their citizens into what is essentially slave labor and killings so the coup leaders can get rich on such black market material?

There are many good and honest people who believe they have Madagascar rosewood from before 2009 and in some cases this can be true if those people have actually physically stored that wood in their own warehouses. However, as soon as one person starts to sell wood to another person and then to another person you lose that confidence since there is a great deal of black market Madagascar rosewood around that is being salted into old stocks. Every time a person buys Madagascar rosewood they support the market price for it which encourages the black market and more trees are cut illegally to take advantage of the high prices.

I think that by the time Madagascar gets a legitimate and honest government there will have been so much cutting of the already depleted Madagascar rosewood trees that the time will be past for sustainable management of Madagascar rosewood and the time will be upon them to move it up from CITES Appendix II to CITES Appendix I which is where Brazilian rosewood is.
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  #18  
Old 07-07-2014, 02:35 PM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
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I have two perfect sets of Madagascar RW (tight, quartersawn grain) that I bought from a legal source many years ago. However, after learning about the governmental corruption in Madagascar and the state of their forests, I will not buy another set as I feel to do so would be unethical.

It is a difficult situation as continued demand from consumers serves to exacerbate the situation and increase likelihood of unethical poaching and irresponsible environmental behavior.
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:20 PM
Guitar1083 Guitar1083 is offline
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so EIR is the safe way of going
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2014, 04:48 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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EIR is beautiful to look at but awful to listen to. Well at least the brands that are on guitar store walls, Collings, Santa Cruz, Martin etc.
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  #21  
Old 07-07-2014, 05:32 PM
Guitar1083 Guitar1083 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
EIR is beautiful to look at but awful to listen to. Well at least the brands that are on guitar store walls, Collings, Santa Cruz, Martin etc.
what do you like?
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  #22  
Old 07-07-2014, 05:35 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger Knox View Post
Mad Rose has a lot in common with blood diamonds...
Yes,precisely. That Luthier - whom I respect for his integrity told me some stories about what goes on to the "little people"in Madagascar - which I won't recount here as it is "hearsay" but it made me reluctant to become involved by ordering this wood.
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2014, 06:13 PM
mjz mjz is offline
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The comments on this thread make me smile. I don't blame anyone for owning it. Many simply did not know the situation around its harvest. Others who might have known the issues and still purchased it made their own decision and certainly were not breaking any laws. But to see so many people understanding what harvesting the wood has meant for the population in Madagasscar is a great thing, imo.

max
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:13 PM
Alan Carruth Alan Carruth is online now
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Tony Burns wrote:
"You also need to know Maddy is a very good guitar wood - but only Brazilian rosewood sounds like Brazilian rosewood. !"

How do you know that? I wonder how many players could pick woods out in a blind test when they're that close to each other in their properties? Remember: "You are the easiest person for you to fool".
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2014, 01:50 PM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carruth View Post
Tony Burns wrote:
"You also need to know Maddy is a very good guitar wood - but only Brazilian rosewood sounds like Brazilian rosewood. !"

How do you know that? I wonder how many players could pick woods out in a blind test when they're that close to each other in their properties? Remember: "You are the easiest person for you to fool".
And only Osage Orange sounds like Osage Orange, but can anyone tell the difference between them?
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2014, 04:48 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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Ive not heard Osage but every Braz guitar Ive heard sounded great, not so with other woods. Hog sounds like hog, EI like EI. I can know that cause of the hundreds and hundreds of those Ive heard. Other woods Ive heard sound different but Ive not heard enough to know if a specific species always sounds like itself. Still the Blackwood guitars Ive heard dont sound like Braz or EI or Hog. The Ziracote Ive heard dont sound like Braz or EI or Hog. Ive not heard enogugh Zirocotes to know if they all have a similar tone.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2014, 05:14 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
Ive not heard Osage but every Braz guitar Ive heard sounded great, not so with other woods. Hog sounds like hog, EI like EI. I can know that cause of the hundreds and hundreds of those Ive heard. Other woods Ive heard sound different but Ive not heard enough to know if a specific species always sounds like itself. Still the Blackwood guitars Ive heard dont sound like Braz or EI or Hog. The Ziracote Ive heard dont sound like Braz or EI or Hog. Ive not heard enogugh Zirocotes to know if they all have a similar tone.
Braz guitars tend to sound great because its expensive, beautiful, traditional for high end guitars and therefore most guitar makers use it in their best guitars. So of course they sound great, because for the most part, braz is only put into great guitars. It's a self-fulfilling expectation
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