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  #1  
Old 07-06-2014, 05:20 PM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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Default Question for 2014 814ce with new bracing owners

Could you please do a test for me and tell me the results? The test is done unplugged and on the A string only, in standard tuning (or at least tuning the 5th string to A). Play the 3rd fret and let then note ring until gone. Pay attention too how long the note rings. Repeat this on the 4th through to the 11th fret, always letting that one note ring out until gone. Do you find any notes that don't ring out as long as others??

The reason for this is that every Taylor I have played (314 to 814) lacks sustain around frets 5 to 9 on the A string. Doing the test on 3 to 11 should make it more obvious if 5 to 9 is weak. On some guitars it's okay, on the odd one a particular note will die out immediately.

I have noticed that many guitar builders have some minor trouble in this area, while others do not. I really like Taylor's for playability and intonation, but this issue has bothered me. You see, if D through F# are weak on the A string, it translates to the D & Low E strings (on the guitars that I have tried). Some had almost none of this showing up on the D & E while others had more. All of them had weakness in the D to F# range on the A string.

I am hoping that the new bracing has solved this issue.

THANK YOU!!
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2014, 01:17 PM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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I know all you new owners must be VERY busy playing your awesome new guitars but... could someone please try this for me??? ( see initial post)
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:50 PM
crazymilo12 crazymilo12 is offline
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Default Sustain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonius View Post
Could you please do a test for me and tell me the results? The test is done unplugged and on the A string only, in standard tuning (or at least tuning the 5th string to A). Play the 3rd fret and let then note ring until gone. Pay attention too how long the note rings. Repeat this on the 4th through to the 11th fret, always letting that one note ring out until gone. Do you find any notes that don't ring out as long as others??

The reason for this is that every Taylor I have played (314 to 814) lacks sustain around frets 5 to 9 on the A string. Doing the test on 3 to 11 should make it more obvious if 5 to 9 is weak. On some guitars it's okay, on the odd one a particular note will die out immediately.

I have noticed that many guitar builders have some minor trouble in this area, while others do not. I really like Taylor's for playability and intonation, but this issue has bothered me. You see, if D through F# are weak on the A string, it translates to the D & Low E strings (on the guitars that I have tried). Some had almost none of this showing up on the D & E while others had more. All of them had weakness in the D to F# range on the A string.

I am hoping that the new bracing has solved this issue.

THANK YOU!!
I definitely have noticed this on a bunch of Taylor's that I played during a three month time frame. I actually called their customer service about it and had a less than friendly response "that's the nature of the beast. If you don't like it, sell it and get something else."

Either way, I played on. There was one particular new K26 at my local shop that had one of those spots (note F on the A string), but I kept coming back to that one week after week for a month, because the tone that I wanted was there. Strangely, each time that I played it, it would become more open and sustain like the other notes until now they are all fairly even.

My point is that it got better once the guitar learned how to be a guitar instead of a tree. Taylor's can be fairly "stiff" when new and can use a good amount of encouragement to open up.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:00 PM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymilo12 View Post
I definitely have noticed this on a bunch of Taylor's that I played during a three month time frame. I actually called their customer service about it and had a less than friendly response "that's the nature of the beast. If you don't like it, sell it and get something else."

Either way, I played on. There was one particular new K26 at my local shop that had one of those spots (note F on the A string), but I kept coming back to that one week after week for a month, because the tone that I wanted was there. Strangely, each time that I played it, it would become more open and sustain like the other notes until now they are all fairly even.

My point is that it got better once the guitar learned how to be a guitar instead of a tree. Taylor's can be fairly "stiff" when new and can use a good amount of encouragement to open up.
Well that isn't the best customer service story. I have played several Takamine's that do not have this problem. Thing is, I really like Taylor's intonation and playability. I also REALLY like how easy it is to reset the neck angle if ever needed. Or if the neck gets hooched you can buy another one and put it on yourself!

For about the price of an 814ce I can get an truly handmade guitar by a local luthier, Peter Sawchyn who has made Bob Evans signature model. Bob won the U.S. National Fingerstyle Guitar Championship in 2003 and has shared the stage with the likes of Tommy several times.

The whole thing got me thinking. A truly 1 man, hand made for the same price as a production run guitar. Yet the Sawchyn comes with Waterfall Bubinga back and sides, Macassar Ebony binding, a 5 piece neck and a Hand polished lacquer finish (and K&K Pure Mini pickup system).

It's a conundrum
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:34 PM
crazymilo12 crazymilo12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Carbonius View Post
Well that isn't the best customer service story. I have played several Takamine's that do not have this problem. Thing is, I really like Taylor's intonation and playability. I also REALLY like how easy it is to reset the neck angle if ever needed. Or if the neck gets hooched you can buy another one and put it on yourself!

For about the price of an 814ce I can get an truly handmade guitar by a local luthier, Peter Sawchyn who has made Bob Evans signature model. Bob won the U.S. National Fingerstyle Guitar Championship in 2003 and has shared the stage with the likes of Tommy several times.

The whole thing got me thinking. A truly 1 man, hand made for the same price as a production run guitar. Yet the Sawchyn comes with Waterfall Bubinga back and sides, Macassar Ebony binding, a 5 piece neck and a Hand polished lacquer finish (and K&K Pure Mini pickup system).

It's a conundrum
That doesn't really sound like a conundrum. I've played the revoiced Taylor 800 series and while it sounds really good and I'm impressed with the difference between the pre 2014 and the revoiced one, one good thing is traded for another. If you have no concerns for reselling and don't love the revoicing, I (a confirmed Taylor fan) would suggest going with the handmade custom. Especially if the tone and feel will be specifically meant to suit you and your playing style. If I go for another guitar it would be a Webber.
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2014, 08:42 PM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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Originally Posted by crazymilo12 View Post
That doesn't really sound like a conundrum. I've played the revoiced Taylor 800 series and while it sounds really good and I'm impressed with the difference between the pre 2014 and the revoiced one, one good thing is traded for another. If you have no concerns for reselling and don't love the revoicing, I (a confirmed Taylor fan) would suggest going with the handmade custom. Especially if the tone and feel will be specifically meant to suit you and your playing style. If I go for another guitar it would be a Webber.
I was also considering a Webber. I only noticed them a few weeks ago. Seems to be a lot of Webber love out there in AGF land. I know that a Taylor will have better resale than a local custom hand made... but the Webber's have quite a reputation. Hmmmmmm
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2014, 08:56 PM
6L6 6L6 is offline
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If sustain is important to you, Taylor is not the brand you want. They have some good features for sure, but sustain has never been one of them.
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  #8  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:14 PM
David-NJ David-NJ is offline
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Originally Posted by 6L6 View Post
If sustain is important to you, Taylor is not the brand you want. They have some good features for sure, but sustain has never been one of them.
Empirically this seems very true. Is it because of the neck joint Taylor uses? The upper Martins still use that historic dovetail joint, which I guess is pretty unbeatable. Taylors are constructed with a bolt-on neck a bit like the lesser Martins, correct?

I like my Taylor 12-string okay but I truly like and trust my Martin -- it just makes exactly the right noises at the right time.

That being said, I realize the Taylor construction allows you to really dial in the guitar's setup without touching the saddle. I truly believe Bob Taylor's brilliance was in getting guitars into the hands of ordinary people that simply played beautifully, even if some of the models are bit plinky and "worshippy" (if that's a word) in their tone. I've never played a Taylor that was poorly set up but boy have a played a lot of Gibsons, Guilds and Martins that were!!
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2014, 09:51 AM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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Originally Posted by 6L6 View Post
If sustain is important to you, Taylor is not the brand you want. They have some good features for sure, but sustain has never been one of them.
Interesting. So as with most other things in life, there are trade offs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-NJ View Post
Empirically this seems very true. Is it because of the neck joint Taylor uses? The upper Martins still use that historic dovetail joint, which I guess is pretty unbeatable. Taylors are constructed with a bolt-on neck a bit like the lesser Martins, correct?

I like my Taylor 12-string okay but I truly like and trust my Martin -- it just makes exactly the right noises at the right time.

That being said, I realize the Taylor construction allows you to really dial in the guitar's setup without touching the saddle. I truly believe Bob Taylor's brilliance was in getting guitars into the hands of ordinary people that simply played beautifully, even if some of the models are bit plinky and "worshippy" (if that's a word) in their tone. I've never played a Taylor that was poorly set up but boy have a played a lot of Gibsons, Guilds and Martins that were!!
One of the first guitars I thought of when I read what 6L6 said above was a Martin that I tried. It was one of the newer ones (performance neck) and it had the Aura that you only get with Martin's. This wasn't a high end one... somewhere around $1500 if I recall. It was either Cedar/Hog or Spruce/Hog. Anyhow, I was really impressed by it. It was hard not to walk out with it! Unplugged and plugged in it sounded awesome.

I can appreciate what you say about Taylor's setup. I too have never played one that wasn't spot on or very close. I don't want to trade that for sustain though. Surely I can have both!?!?

Good point about the neck. Maybe that neck that I love is part of the problem for me. Sounds like I need to go out and play A LOT more guitars
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:11 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by Carbonius View Post
Interesting. So as with most other things in life, there are trade offs...
Always but in this case the post you are responding to is incorrect.

As to your question, what you are experiencing is a sympathetic note, every guitar has one somewhere. It's more noticeable on some guitars than others but it is not restricted to any one brand. In fact the first time I noticed this was ten years ago on my Martin D-45V.
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