How Short is “Short Scale”?

[Jim Comeaux]

What determines if a guitar is “short scale”? For instance the Yamaha FG-5 has a scale length of 25”. Is that short scale or not?

[raysachs]

Seems anything shorter than full scale (25.4 - 25.6”) is considered short. Martin considers 24.9 “ to be their short scale, but there are other much shorter scale guitars out there. I had a 24” scale guitar for a while and have played them down below 22”. I think short scale is a large category…

-Ray

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

What determines if a guitar is “short scale”? For instance the Yamaha FG-5 has a scale length of 25”. Is that short scale or not?

Hi Jim

Some builders consider 25.4" normal, others 25.5". And short scales come in a lot of variations.

There was a time when people spoke of 'Gibson' scale (24.75") and Fender scale (25.5") and they were taking those figures from the electric side. It's actually how Buzz Feiten licensed his version of the Fanned frets. He liked aspects of the shorter version (Gibson) on the trebles, so the 1st string was 24.75" and Fender (long) on the bass, so the low E was 25.5".

During a time when Feiten was 'enforcing' licensing fees for people building fanned fret guitars, I had a fanned fret built, and we had to pay him $75 to secure the license and a bunch of over-the-top paper work and 'demands'.

He insisted you had to put his sticker inside the sound hole so it was visible. My builder handed me the sticker and said "you can put that in there if you want" and I did not.

Feiten no longer pursues this like he once did. My OM is 25" to 25.75" scale. A ¾" total offset.

I've seen fanned frets with a full 2" of offset.

Buzz still owns the patent on the Buzz Feiten tuning system which is an expensive way of setting up and intonating a guitar to make it play better in tune. He used to hold training seminars for set-up techs (that was 15 yrs ago) and sold the apparatus, tools and materials to set guitars up.

Back to scale length. I've played a couple 24" scale parlor guitars which sounded and played wonderfully. They could handle heavier strings because of the shortness of the scale, which means they were a bit louder than expected.

[kurth]

...in my opinion.....anything below gibson standard 24 3/4, all the way down. They don't call les pauls or gretsch's short scale. Classicals offer 1/4 scale nylons, and I've seen scales down to 17". Starts to be a 6 string mandola around that point.

[Zigeuner]

25.4" is standard Martin. Their short scale is 24.9" Gibson Byrdland electric was 23.5" - that's nice and short. I like short scale guitars. My 00-21 Martin is 24.9
and it's very easy to play.

[Jim Comeaux]

I suppose that I should have stated in my original post that I have ordered a Yamaha FG-5. It has 25” scale. I’m just wondering if the slightly shorter scale will cause me any problems.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

I suppose that I should have stated in my original post that I have ordered a Yamaha FG-5. It has 25” scale. I’m just wondering if the slightly shorter scale will cause me any problems.

Only if you think about it too much

[Mycroft]

I think of anything 25" to 26" as Standard. 25" to 24" as short scale, under 24" as very short scale. Likewise 26" to 27" as long scale, 27" to 28" as short baritone, 28" to 30" as baritone, and over 30" as a bass.

Others mileage may vary...

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

I suppose that I should have stated in my original post that I have ordered a Yamaha FG-5. It has 25” scale. I’m just wondering if the slightly shorter scale will cause me any problems.

What problems are you concerned with?

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

I suppose that I should have stated in my original post that I have ordered a Yamaha FG-5. It has 25” scale. I’m just wondering if the slightly shorter scale will cause me any problems.

Hi Jim, you're fine with 25" scale on the FG-5 (I'm jealous!). You probably won't even notice a difference from ~25.5.

Looking forward to your NGD thread when it comes in!

[blindboyjimi]

I consider 25.4” as standard, and anything less as a short scale. I have guitars from 24.5” to 25.4” and don’t notice any difference. The shortest scale is a bit less tension but it’s something you’d get used to within a minute or two. I routinely change back and forth. Additionally, I have 11s of the 24.5” and 12s on all others with 13s on the 25.4” dread. The string gauge makes much more difference to my hands. All my guitars are set up the same so I don’t feel the short scales play dramatically easier.

[Silly Moustache]

Pretty much what Mycroft said (how's you bro Mycroft?)

Still at 221b?

We must remember that steel string flat top guitars "evolved" from European classical guitars which were typically 640 m/m (25.2") or 630 m/m (24.8")

Martin redesigned the flat top in many ways but largely settled on three scale lengths - 24.5 (size 2) 24.9" (size 0 and 00) and 25.4 (size 000 and latterly the Dreadnought)

Gibson scales varied depending on where and when they were being built. See this gent @



https://youtu.be/0yCLckbp8ps

I once had a copy of the Gibson l-0/1 (supposedly Robert Johnson's guitar) which has a 24 and 1/4" scale.



https://youtu.be/kcdlpIW7N0M

Gibson and most other archtops were given 25" scales. (I believe)

As I am strongly influenced by Martin designs , I would say that under 25" is a short scale, and 25.4 or 25.5" (Collings and Gibson Advanced Jumbo) is "standard" scale.

Anything over 25.5" - and typically 26.5" to 30.5" (Baritone) may be considered long scale.

So, there is short scale, standard scale and long scale.

[Rudy4]

Nice ,even numbers and EZ to remember:

25" to 26" = full scale (with the exception of baritone range, of course!)

24" to 25" = mid scale

23" to 24" = short scale

ALL of these could be considered more or less as "standard" scale lengths because they would commonly be tuned E-A-D-G-B-E.

Below 23" gets you in a range which requires higher tuning, much above 26" gets you into baritone range, requiring a lower tuning range.

The above is based on my particular opinion and conjecture. As in all things internet, YMMV, IMHO, WYSIWYG, etc. If you feel the need to argue those options, FSETPO !!!

[mcmars]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

I suppose that I should have stated in my original post that I have ordered a Yamaha FG-5. It has 25” scale. I’m just wondering if the slightly shorter scale will cause me any problems.

I cannot see any problems with your choice of guitar, unless you put ex light strings or play tuned down a couple steps, then you might have to set the strings up for high action.

I think 25" scale is perfect scale length sweet spot between the 24.75 and 25.5 as it allows easy fretting, bar chords and string bends, hammer, pull offs and still has some of the "punch" of the 25.5. But I play mostly all fingerstyle. A bluegrass dread loving flatpicker might disagree and want a longer scale with fat string gauge.

There is also the advantage for us older folks with arthritis setting in as shorter scales makes it easier to get the reach to stretch for certain potentially difficult chords in cowboy position, like the "long A" where you bar the 2nd fret from 4th string down and stretch the pinky to the 5th fret 1st string. I see a 24" scale as a great solution to aging down the road eventually.

[jaymarsch]

I own and play guitars that range between 24” to 25.4” and have no problems switching between them. I play all of them in dropped tunings with 12-54s. I generally do not put the 24” scale in a low C tuning, but I could if I raised my string gauge a bit.
Best,
Jayne