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Old 02-01-2017, 10:00 PM
Atalkingsausage Atalkingsausage is offline
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Default Fender and Gibson two widely different philosophies

Is it interesting to anyone else how Gibson and Fender compete head to head in the electric guitar world but they are polar opposites when it comes to acoustics. Am I missing something or is there a reason why Fender has chosen to compete with Yamaha, Seagull, Epiphone, Etc... Etc... rather than get in on the High end of things. Anyone know why this might be?
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:06 PM
TominNJ TominNJ is offline
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Fender made an effort to get into high end acoustics when they bought Tacoma and Guild but neither one worked out. They didn't put much effort into either company.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:35 PM
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I could be wrong, but I have the impression that Orville Gibson started his company with mandolins and other acoustic instruments while Leo Fender started his company with electric instruments. I kind of remember some Fender acoustics back in the day, but clearly the company's bread and butter has always been electric guitars....
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:35 PM
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Fender was all about electric guitars when they started, meanwhile Gibson had started making acoustics 50 years earlier and was well known. Gibson never made much headway competing against Fender in the amplifier market, so I guess it goes both ways. I had a Fender 12-string for years, it was decent but it sounded pretty thin and it was all laminate including the top, which made it relatively bullet-proof - a great guitar to bring camping, for example.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:52 PM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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There are so many reasons why Fender may not have focused on acoustics. Margin could be one. Compared to its electrics, acoustics take so much more concentration on woods, bracing and precision design, engineering, construction and probably most importantly, personal craftsmanship.

If you think about it, the basic design of a Fender electric takes a body, carves it out the basic spec, same thing with the neck. Then they bolt it together with the electronics and hardware and voila! They can crank out a hell of a lot of units and probably train staff much quicker than producing acoustics.

Gibson has always produced higher end acoustics and so they've just continued the tradition and have the marketing for such. Fender would have a difficult time breaking into the high end market being so late in the game. They would have to compete with Gibson, Taylor and a ton of smaller guys. Why bother when they have a built in niche market in and easy to produce product line?
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:48 PM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalkingsausage View Post
Is it interesting to anyone else how Gibson and Fender compete head to head in the electric guitar world but they are polar opposites when it comes to acoustics. Am I missing something or is there a reason why Fender has chosen to compete with Yamaha, Seagull, Epiphone, Etc... Etc... rather than get in on the High end of things. Anyone know why this might be?
Fender's new focus on acoustics seems in the right direction in that the company is taking acoustics very seriously. I've yet to find one I liked, but to be fair I haven't given many a chance in recent years. Last one I tried was the Tim Armstrong all Mahogany Hellcat, I felt the similarly priced Ibanez AC240 was a much better sounding, better looking, better intonated, and better playing guitar.
Their recently introduced Paramount acoustics are all solid wood, Asian built. They are priced to compete with Eastman, Blueridge, etc... I think we need more options in that market area and I think it's smart Fender is focusing there.

Fender has tried many times to enter the acoustic market and has always had luckluster success... While Gibson's reputation has been shaky at times, the reality is MANY great artist from the 50s and 60s: Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Donovan, James Taylor, Lightnin' Hopkins, etc.. Used Gibson acoustics live and in the studio. And many continue to today. The Gibson J-45 and J-200 are greatly respected icons in the acoustic guitar world and the LG-2 and Hummingbird aren't far behind. The J-45 has been called "the most recorded guitar in history" as studio engineers quickly developed a love for it's mid-range punch.

Fender has no strong history with acoustics. in fact Yamaha's acoustic line probably has a richer history than Fender.

Gibson is a different story. I see Gibson as the real crown jewel of American guitar builders. They remain the only iconic company to have been at this for over a hundred years with historic vintage acoustic and electric models played by the some of the greatest recording artist in history. There are niche cases of other builders having popular electric and acoustic models, but none come close to the momentum and numbers behind Gibson's brand.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:18 AM
Silurian Silurian is offline
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Maybe Fender feel its best to stick with their core products, electrics and amps. Interestingly, Fender probably have a good share of the 'beginner' market due to their CD range of acoustics. Low price and the cache of the Fender name on the headstock, they probably make a nice profit for Fender.

At this price point, its more than likely that parents will be buying guitars for their kids. The cheaper Fender acoustics tend to be heavily marketed in oultets that aren't guitar focused. Catalogue and other online retailers. Parents will often look to these retailers for a first guitar for their child.

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Old 02-02-2017, 04:19 AM
Oldguy64 Oldguy64 is offline
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Also, how many BRAND NEW players start with a forum like this for advice?
We get plenty of people looking for their first acoustic, but have played electric for years.
For the most part very few people want to spend the $300 on a very good starter guitar.
So, they buy a $129 Fender, and wonder why little Johnny didn't stick with it.
The other group that buys a first guitar is the retiree that wants to "buy American" and buys a D-28 to learn on.
There is some middle ground.
But comparatively, not a lot of brand new players know enough to spend what a good guitar costs. And they end up with entry level Fenders because they've seen that big ol' F on stage for their entire life.
If the pros play them....
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Last edited by Oldguy64; 02-02-2017 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:21 AM
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Leo was only interested in living up to the answers he gave people.

Paul Bigsby and a couple other guys were always out and about in the nightclubs enjoying Western Swing and very early attempts at what would become Rock and Roll. Leo was friends or acquainted with a few of these people, and learned the decent amps were needed for this new big band stuff featuring guitar players. Paul asked him if he could make an amp loud enough but clean enough to cut through horns and Leo said "Yes". He was a radio repairman, got out the handbook and K&F amps were born and then Fender.

A guy asked him if he could make the double upright bass into something he could carry and wear like a guitar. Leo said "Yes" before he even thought about it, and we got the Precision.

Bill Carson and a few other guys asked him if he could make a guitar that they could intonate and fix when they needed to and he said "Yes".

We got Telecaster and Esquire because he said yes.

Acoustic guitars were not something he was interested in. Being a cheapskate at heart, he saw no economy in making acoustics, they would need work that the average guys he knew as guitar players couldn't or didn't want or have time and resources to do. Forest pushed him into acoustics, and Forest had a good relationship with Martin, that's who showed him how to bind the top of a guitar and we got Custom Telecaster in 19...60 or so.

So yeah, no, he didn't care about acoustics or competing with acoustic makers at all. He didn't even care about competing with other electric makers!

Did I mention I could flap on about them guys for hours on end?

rct
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:42 AM
riverrummed riverrummed is offline
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That's cool rct, flappin' on is all life comes down to in the end. It's probably about all that guys do down at the nursing home...if they're lucky. At this most recent NAMM I notice that Taylor is going after the beginner market. My beginner guitar when I took guitar up again after a twenty year hiatus, was a $250 Takamine. Compared to the bad old days beginner guitars are all over the place for them that shop around just a little bit and there are a lot of luthiers around too that can set them up well for a beginner. What blows me away is just the sheer number of guitar companies and how many guitars are cranked out worldwide year after year after year. I find it hard to believe that all those guitars are being bought up but it just keeps on and on so it makes me wonder.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:39 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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I'm thinking that Fender has finally learned their lesson about (trying to) build high-end, American made solid wood acoustics. The big three have that ground pretty well sown up.

They do have some interesting new stuff in the Paramount series (I especially like the look and specks PM-2 in all Mahogany).

They drove Tacoma into the ground. Of course, they were already headed that way to some degree due to faulty & peeling finishes - or so I understand. I had a pre-Fender Tacoma DR12 that had that issue. It was a stellar sounding guitar.

Couldn't make it work at Guild either.

They should stick with what they are good at IMO. Electrics and amps.

Even though the Paramount series is Pac-rim, I would still like to try one. Many have said they are overbuilt but I would like to hear for myself. I have yet to see one in the wild. Not sure how they plan on selling them without getting distributors to stock them.

They also have other players like G&L and Reverend strongly nipping at their heels in the electric realm.
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