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#1
01-01-2017, 12:13 PM
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Relative guitar costs btw the U.S. and France
Hi folks, I'd like to inquire on how much guitars cost to an american musician or music lover in relation to the cost of living in our respective countries...
Here american guitars such as Taylors or Martins end up being expensive : for instance a Martin D-28 is worth about the monthly income of a school-teacher after 20 yeas working, or a Taylor 814 ce would be the same but to a highly qualified teacher in colleges or universities. Most musicians I know here usually make between €50 and €100 per gig (but don't work regularly)... The minimum legal monthly wages for a worker would be the equivalent of a Taylor 214 ce less 50€ on an online store... Considering these examples, how does it compare to the U.S. (sorry that I'm not giving any guitar prices as I had problems with it on some other forum - don't know if it's allowed here-) ? Thanks for support, Bernie 
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#2
01-01-2017, 12:36 PM
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The US is a rather largish place. Not quite as diverse as Europe, but still a large and varied place.
Average income in Bulgaria is likely quite different from France, as is the average income difference between New York and Missouri. A schoolteacher in Chicago makes more than twice what one does in Phoenix for example. So, I don't think your question has a really well defined answer.
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Larrivee OM-03RE; O-01 Martin D-35; Guild F-212; Tacoma Roadking Breedlove American Series C20/SR Rainsong SFTA-FLE; WS3000; CH-PA Taylor GA3-12, Guild F-212 https://markhorning.bandcamp.com/music
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#3
01-01-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
However if you (or someone) told me what standard Martin or Taylor guitar a schoolteacher in CHicago could get with its monthly income, it would still give some good clues (not only on a Phoenix schoolteacher ability in this same field  )...From what I've seen, there don't seem to have this type of difference in guitar prices from one american state to an other... Bernie
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#4
01-01-2017, 03:01 PM
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A Martin D-28 has a MAP (minimum advertised price) of $2629. Sales tax varies by State. Some are as high as 10% (California) and some have no sales tax at all (Oregon, Delaware). According to the best on-line data I can find, starting salary for a Teacher varies from $30,000 (South Dakota), to $40,000 (New York State). Note that somewhere like New York City or Chicago is much higher than the state average) Average is: $39,000 (SD again) $75,000 (NY again) US Salaries are always given before taxes and benefits deductions, so actual "take home" pay is about 70% of those numbers, but can vary considerably by state income tax rate and tax bracket. So a teacher in Arizona, making an average of $50k/year or $4166 a month, who bought a D-28 at a Large Chain in Phoenix (paying MAP + 8.6% sales tax) would have to pay about 3 weeks (2.7) wages.
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Larrivee OM-03RE; O-01 Martin D-35; Guild F-212; Tacoma Roadking Breedlove American Series C20/SR Rainsong SFTA-FLE; WS3000; CH-PA Taylor GA3-12, Guild F-212 https://markhorning.bandcamp.com/music
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#5
01-01-2017, 03:46 PM
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My HS science teacher had a band and would play bars on the weekends. Mostly early 70's type stuff. His guitar was a Yamaha. A price to income appropriate choice imo.
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All of my guitars are rescues. '85 Gibson J30e '75 Ovation Balladeer '99 HD28V '99 Gibson WM-00 '75 Takamine "guild" Jumbo '46 Harmony Silvertone H700 '12 GS-Mini '?? Epiphone Dr-212 CSU Rams
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#6
01-01-2017, 04:53 PM
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I don't know about that, most musicians prioritize their instruments over food!
we all know the one about a musician being someone that puts 5000 dollars worth of gear into a 500 dollar car to drive 50 miles to a 5 dollar gig....
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#7
01-01-2017, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
There is quite a few things I can get from that. Not sure of what yet as teachers' wages are quite difficult to take fully into account, as it is quite complex here too, and being a musician I know more about musicians' wages...It doesn't seem to end up being as different as I thought though... Sale tax (T.V.A. or V.A.T. in english) is 20% on about everything everywhere in the country(usually given prices include V.A.T.)...I wonder if someone buying a guitar from an Oregon guitar shop to have it sent to California would have to pay the 10% sale tax... Yes Ramesses Yamaha guitars are cheaper (and it's the same here)...But I don't fancy them. Well Zealots, I happen to be one of these musicians... But I would like to have to spend much less...Funny story anyway...Thanks to you all for participation and support...  Bernie Last edited by Bernieman; 01-01-2017 at 05:47 PM.
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#8
01-01-2017, 06:00 PM
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Until recently Europeans have had a real advantage with the Euro being worth up to 40% more than the dollar. However at this moment there is only roughly a 3% difference, which is probably eaten by conversion or arbitrage.
I'm not sure how it works in France, but with the cost of socialized medicine and other government progams and worker benefits I have to assume you have some sort of VAT tax in France which would increase the price of all goods. I lived in Mexico for awhile where there is the IVA tax, similar to VAT, in which the Mexican government takes 16% every time an item changes hands. Consequently things that cost X in the US often cost 2X in Mexico by the time it reaches the consumer. I'm wondering what the actual cost difference is when you convert Euros back to Dollars?
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Assuming is not knowing. Knowing is NOT the same as understanding. There is a difference between compassion and wisdom, however compassion cannot supplant wisdom, and wisdom can not occur without understanding. facts don't care about your feelings and FEELINGS ALONE MAKE FOR TERRIBLE, often irreversible DECISIONS 
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#9
01-01-2017, 06:03 PM
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Re: Question
Bernie,
I'm in Oregon so I can speak to the tax question. No sales tax on items purchased in Oregon and none applied if I buy from another state (say California). It gets trickier if someone from another state buys in Oregon as their home state will typically try to recoup sales tax on their resident's purchase. Not certain this can be done on a "cash and carry" basis though?
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#10
01-01-2017, 06:11 PM
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Chris Stern Guitars by: Bown Wingert Kinscherff Sobell Circa Olson Ryan Fay Kopp McNally Santa Cruz McAlister Beneteau Fairbanks Franklin Collings Tippin Martin Lowden Northworthy Pre-War GC Taylor Fender Höfner 44 in total (no wife) Around 30 other instruments Anyone know a good psychiatrist? www.chrisstern.com
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#11
01-02-2017, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
 ... Crazy or in love with music...It usually takes really good instruments to reach a high level at playing I think... -Thanks Quake 17, very interesting point. -Vindibonal, most many musicians I know usually end up playing guitars made in Asia (like most other people)...Even when dollar was cheaper opposed to euro, other things made good american guitars expensive for us - one of them being a 20% V.A.T. From the example of teachers' wages, there do not seem to have the kind of difference I would have expected however, between here & the U.S. : at least for young teachers (high wages end up being much higher than what they'd be in France it seems though). Anybody knowing how much musicians get per night when they play bars or restaurants ? I bet it's linked to how well-known they are, but let's say the usual singer-musician playing down the road... One more thing is how much one gets being employed in a supermarket, a music store or other such jobs ? Bernie Bernie Last edited by Bernieman; 01-03-2017 at 03:51 AM.
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#12
01-03-2017, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Chris Stern Guitars by: Bown Wingert Kinscherff Sobell Circa Olson Ryan Fay Kopp McNally Santa Cruz McAlister Beneteau Fairbanks Franklin Collings Tippin Martin Lowden Northworthy Pre-War GC Taylor Fender Höfner 44 in total (no wife) Around 30 other instruments Anyone know a good psychiatrist? www.chrisstern.com Last edited by Yrksman; 01-03-2017 at 06:27 AM.
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#13
01-03-2017, 02:06 PM
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25 guitars? Definitely craziness sorry
But don't worry, I can heel you quick : send me a few, will take some more next time & you'll be okay... Several luthiers made it seems... Seeing the price of standard Martin, Taylor or others these days, some luthier's made guitars end up being really worthwhile I think...There are good makers in France and I 've fancied quite a few guitars they made by now...
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#14
01-04-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Chris Stern Guitars by: Bown Wingert Kinscherff Sobell Circa Olson Ryan Fay Kopp McNally Santa Cruz McAlister Beneteau Fairbanks Franklin Collings Tippin Martin Lowden Northworthy Pre-War GC Taylor Fender Höfner 44 in total (no wife) Around 30 other instruments Anyone know a good psychiatrist? www.chrisstern.com
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#15
01-04-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
The cost of living varies enormously from place to place. A nice house in eg Alabama costs 1/5 what it would cost in California. In very broad terms, if the median household income is 37k per year, or about 3k per month (gross, before taxes), a 2xx Taylor costs about half that. But it's not really a meaningful comparison the way it used to be here 100 years ago ("a guitar used to cost a month's wages for the average factory worker") or the way it still is in Europe, because of guaranteed minimum income and a more homogeneous job market there, and a very very wide range here. The concept of "the average x worker" isn't really representative of anything anymore. Source: a French guy who's spent half his life in each country.
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Solo acoustic guitar videos: This Boy is Damaged - Little Watercolor Pictures of Locomotives - Ragamuffin
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