Rear-shifted braced guitars loud as heck?

[Long Jon]

My Martin "America's Guitar" is pretty much a D 28 Marquis in anniversary clothing.

Adirondack top and fwd shifted, scalloped braces. Madagascar back n sides. mod V neck.

Loud ? You betcha ! Headroom forever, BUT it is only really a VERY subtle increment from my standard HD 28 V.

I'm not sure if I could detect the difference in a blind listening.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

Regarding Martin bracing positions, there are actually three. The key issue is the bracing in relation to the bridge. We often use the distance from the sound hole as reference, which works well enough for 14 fret Dreadnaughts since the geometry of the sound hole and fretboard is consistent through time.

So, for 14 fret Dreadnaughts.....

The original "forward" position is 1" from the sound hole. Notice I don't say "forward shifted" since that is the original position. The bracing was "rear shifted" in 1938 to 1 7/8" from the sound hole. It remained there until 1955 when it moved to 1 1/2" from the sound hole. For lack of a better description, I call that the "modern position" since it has been the default position since that time.

To the OP's point, I don think the rear shifted Martin have a more snappy/punchy tone than forward braced guitars.

Buck,
I like the way you put it into clear perspective via a timeline.

I've always felt the same way about 24.9" being referred to as 'short scale' when it was pretty standard until 25.4" came along

24.9" is standard scale as far as I'm concerned.

HE

[Allen Shadd]

I don't think my D-28 Tyminski is noticeably louder than any of my other guitars, if in fact it is any louder. I'm not suggesting that the store owner is right nor wrong in his opinion, I just think there is more at play from one guitar to the next, as much if not more than one model to the next. I also don't find my Tyminski lacking in bass whatsoever and in fact has a good bit more bottom end than the HD-28 that is in the house. But again, I think each individual guitar can have certain qualities over another one of the same build.

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

...I've always felt the same way about 24.9" being referred to as 'short scale' when it was pretty standard until 25.4" came along...

Thanks for the compliment on the timeline.

The scale length is a little harder to pin down, partially because some misinformation has appeared in print over the years. Some have written that the 25.4" scale originated with the OM, but it was used at least from the turn of the century. First on the 00 size, then the 000. At that time Martin tended to use it their largest model. Of course, they were all 12 frets. From 1930-1934 Martin used it on both OM's and Dreadnaughts, but when they converted most models to 14 fret guitars in 1934, the 14 fret 000 supplanted the OM and used the 24.9" scale from 1934 onward.

[golfnut]

Originally Posted by kydave

The most consistently loud Martins that I've played many of? That nod would go to the various D-28 Marquis models I've played.

I attend a weekly bluegrass jam where one of the players owns a 5 year old D-28 Marquis. My 41 authentic dramatically drowns it out. Of course it doesn't help that he plays soft. We did trade for a couple of songs once and I could feel it couldn't be heard as well. I wonder if it has more to do with the fact it just didn't cut through the mix as well and wasn't necessarily any thing to do with actual volume.

[kydave]

Since this thread was resurrected and circumstances have changed since 2014 I'll chime in again.

As many of you know, I recently got a new '37 D28 Authentic. Sitting in the office of the venue where I played this past Saturday, I compared it to my old D28 Tyminski (2009 & has seen a lot of use) and the venue owner's '41 D28 Authentic (3 years or so old with a lot of use).

The new '37 was the loudest in the room, with the Tyminski the quietest (if such a word can be used about a D28). Not drastic, but unarguable. Tonewise, the '37 had more cut as well as more bottom than the other two. Again, not dramatic, but there.

Since I've played the two older guitars up against a D28 Marquis I had for a week or so at my home, and various other similar models, I think they are all reasonable representations of their model.

At this point, I'd say that - generally speaking - without going to a D28 Authentic, the Marquis is consistently the best tone, loudest Martin made. And in a room full of half Marquis and half '37 D28A, the difference of sound in the guitars would be close to indistinguishable in the aggregate, with some of each "beating" others of each.

At this level of guitar it is really hard to go wrong.