Gas, guitars and the emperor's clothes

[TBman]

Originally Posted by lowrider

Just for fun, I just checked out some of the custom builders; both Kinnairds, Bashkin, Kostal, Skytop and then Santa Cruz.

Prices are way up. $6000 isn't going to get you in the door.

I'm thinking that you could get everything you want, including the sustain, in a Martin Custom Shop GPC-28 or GPC-35. You wouldn't get the ''cache'' of a luthier made guitar or the exclusivity, but you'd still be in your price range with a heck of a guitar.

No way am I going with a custom build, I know that.

[mawmow]

I came to solid wood acoustics some fifteen years ago and discovered the joy of playing melodies,
fingerstyle. Since there was no well-stuffed guitar store nearby, I used to order guitars online,
new and used, and so came to recognize I needed orchestra bodies with 1 3/4" nut width :
During the last fifteen years I had bought some forty acoustics but kept only fifteen.
I am used to play a different guitar each day.

As my skills improved quite much as well as my ears, reading opinions on this forum
lead me to think it was time to get an even better acoustic. Now that I retired and moved,
I have three good guitar stores nearby. One have two Collings. I cannot find any SCGC.

So, in order to make room and get some money back, I began a round of "knock-out duels"
among my acoustics : It revealed to be a shocking experience since I discovered I had
unconsciously married different string types to different guitars that made some of them
unexpectedly sound alike.

Could you believe an entry level Eastman almost plays and sounds as good as a Taylor 412ce and a Martin OOO-18 ?
Eastman AC122ce (Spruce/Ovangkol or Cocobolo ?; D'AddarioEXP)
Martin 000-18 (2014; Spruce/Mahogany; Martin MSP4100)
Taylor 412ce (Spruce/Ovangkol; D'Addario Ni/Br)

That there is not as great difference between the Taylor 412 and a 322 ?
Taylor 322 (Mahogany/Blaxkwood; ernie ball Al/Br)

That a Taylor 510 just makes it over a young Guild F-30 Aragon?
Taylor 510 (2006; Englemann/Mahogany; 0,013" DR Dragon Skin)
Guild F-30 (Adi top?/ Rosewood; 0,012" ernie ball Al/Br)

That a Seagull Performer (worth under a gran) almost knocks a Gibson L-OO TV (more than three grans) out ?!
Seagull Performer CW QIT (D'Addario EXP)
Gibson L-00TV (D'Addario EXP)

Among my nylons, both my Red Cedar/Rosewood Spanish Aria AC-80 and Ramirez R-4
worth more than two grans were knocked out by my Cedar/Mahogany Canadian LaPatrie
Concert (Godin) worth half a gran and found in a pawn shop !

Sure I do own some beloved that are unmatched among my herd : all-Mahogany
Alvarez AP66 parlor, Godin 5th Avenue archtop each worth half a gran, as well as
Larrivee OM-09, Martin OODB worth aver two grans.

The bottom line is a half a gran acoustic could reveal as rewarding as a three grans one.
Now, would actually a five grans acoustics makes me happier ?

[ewalling]

Now here's a lighthearted but tantalizing thought: might there be a parallel between buying increasingly expensive guitars and cosmetic surgery? We buy one expensive instrument, are happy with it for a time, but soon we notice a new 'wrinkle' and start dreaming about the next, more improved procedure ...

[rabbuhl]

A lot of people can afford a high-end acoustic. However, in comparison, a working musician doing a gig on a Saturday night probably has a Taylor GS eMini or 214CE.

[phavriluk]

I don;t want to take a swipe at the tonal 'tar baby'. But I will speak from personal experience. I spent hours visiting and talking with the sole proprietor of Yahara Guitars in Madison, Wisconsin. Craftsmanship like I've never before seen and the voices of the angels were singing to me. And at the time priced wisely. I encourage OP to call.

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

A lot of people can afford a high-end acoustic. However, in comparison, a working musician doing a gig on a Saturday night probably has a Taylor GS eMini or 214CE.

It's like Bill Collings said once when asked how he expected working musicians to be able to afford his guitars at their price point: "If I had to make a living selling guitars to working musicians, I'd be sleeping under a bridge."

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by TBman

No way am I going with a custom build, I know that.

Once I hit the $4K -$5K mark, maybe a bit more for my Taylor BTO, I felt the only way beyond that was going custom. And the benefit was more in the overall experience and aesthetics than sound. My Stehr is still the best sounding guitar I own and among the finest I have ever played. But as has been noted, the law of diminishing returns is clear for me in that it isn’t soooooo much better that price alone justifies it. I loved the whole package, from choosing the builder, selecting the woods, working out the design, and so on. If I were not going that route, I’d probably be looking at a Taylor 914CE in Sinker Redwood, with an arm bevel, or a Rainbow Furch with arm and rib bevel. Ergonomics, to me, are worth it.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by TBman

No way am I going with a custom build, I know that.

I understand. I found that if I were to get lost into the details of a guitar based on features my efforts were better focused on building them rather than playing them. Even with just one under my belt I’m finding that some features are purely cosmetic and quite frankly not worth the price; what you’re paying for is just the cost of labor in making it or the rarity of the material.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

I understand. I found that if I were to get lost into the details of a guitar based on features my efforts were better focused on building them rather than playing them. Even with just one under my belt I’m finding that some features are purely cosmetic and quite frankly not worth the price; what you’re paying for is just the cost of labor in making it or the rarity of the material.

I'm a basic guitar sort of guy. I don't like a lot of bling - an abalone rosette is as fancy as I would go with simple fret markers. What I want (and I have some already) is a guitar that makes you get lost in its sound just by noodling. As I would be spending more than what I have in the past I'm expecting to get more in the tone department. How much more I can really get for my budget vs what I have spent before is something I'm looking at.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm a basic guitar sort of guy. I don't like a lot of bling - an abalone rosette is as fancy as I would go with simple fret markers. What I want (and I have some already) is a guitar that makes you get lost in its sound just by noodling. As I would be spending more than what I have in the past I'm expecting to get more in the tone department. How much more I can really get for my budget vs what I have spent before is something I'm looking at.

My Larrivee OM-03R scratches that itch.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by TBman

No way am I going with a custom build, I know that.

It is best to know what you want before going full custom......so Dr BK777 prescribes a year or two playing a nice Lowden, possibly an F35 cutaway could fit your specs mentioned earlier.....maybe Koa with sinker Redwood top? (may need to be used, to fit your $6K....).

So this morning, I played my Lowden S35 Tas Blackwood/Cedar to get going, similar to Koa I am told. But I could play every style I do on this guitar, from this to that and back. Don’t tell anybody!

Had a cup of coffee, grabbed my custom Cargill deep body 00 Gabon Ebony/Italian spruce. Oh yeah! My neck specs on an exotic! What can I say, except I really look after myself!

Sat outside for a while, had some lunch, grabbed the Lowden O22 and...sacrilege....put it in ...gasp ..... standard tuning! Just sensational though more known for DADGAD. It is like playing a 00 that has grown. Beautiful deep bass but absolutely no dread boom....very balanced.

So, this has all come about because I have always loved acoustics, but gave up smoking a number of years back and dedicated the smoke money to...guitars!

BluesKing777.

[rabbuhl]

Originally Posted by Denny B

It's like Bill Collings said once when asked how he expected working musicians to be able to afford his guitars at their price point: "If I had to make a living selling guitars to working musicians, I'd be sleeping under a bridge."

That's funny! I was looking at Stratocasters a while back. My list included Fender Custom Shop models and also different brands than Fender. I called a store in the UK about a Custom Shop Fender. I asked stupidly what do musicians take to the gig on Saturday night? He said certainly not a Fender Custom Shop Stratocaster. I ended up buying a Fender FSR American Standard Stratocaster "V" Neck Mystic 3-Color Sunburst with a rosewood fretboard. It was exactly what I needed and nothing more. It had good pickups (CS Fat 50's), a good radius (compound 9.5" to 14"), and was just a nice guitar. Best of all it had been in the shop for a few years. It still had the 2013 price of 1299 EUR while the new 2017 American Professional Strats were priced much higher.

[TBman]

You know, when I was shopping online for my Avalon, I also went to my local guitar center. They had a 714, lutz over rosewood that I really liked. When the time comes, I'm going to take a look to see what they have in stock. I'll look at the 800 and 900 series too.

I love the sound of Taylor, the fit and finish and the playability. Why should I play a guessing game when what I like is right could be right at hand.

[Mr. Jelly]

Like all luxury items they are not worth it. Unless you want luxury.

[gitarro]

Custom made guitars by skilled luthiers should be expected to be built with marvellous levels of fit and finish and with beautiful, artistic and unique design and aesthetics. But in the end they need to be on a high and distinctive level of tonal quality and ergonomic comfort to be worth commissioning or buying as they are musical instruments first and foremost over factory guitars. The experience and skill levels of luthiers will of course vary, and tonal quality and artistic appreciation are very subjective to each person so there is no cookie cutter answer that fits everyone or every guitar

For me, I am not interested in factory guitars as they are assembly line products to me as opposed to a custom made guitar by a luthier that is more of a fusion of art and function that is the work of his own skill, artistry and knowledge.