Decided to give some high-end Martins a try again...

[GibbyPrague]

I think Martin makes some great guitars. I really like several models, but there are also many that leave me uninspired.

I guess youre probably not a Martin guy.

[blaren]

I hear you MBE.
Good thing you didn't go as far as chooch did!

I would consider the 18s and 28s pretty high end. Sure Martin has higher-end but they also have lower end, and lower lower end.
You cant call em low end though cause they aren't made in Mexico. Cant call them mid-grade cause they aren't a 15 or a D16-GT.
In the Martin line I guess I would call them high-mid-upper-mid-high-end.
In the world of acoustic guitars in general, I'd consider them high end and I think so would most people.

And also YES MBE, I too have some Halcyons and they are LOUD! But when we're talking quality guitars LOUD and toneful don't have to be mutually exclusive.
If your Halcyon is like mine (clearly it is), it sounds SWEET, and RICH and huge and musical and every other awesome-tone descriptive AND loud.

I have a Halcyon OOO with GOBS of tone. I have put it up against D18s and D28s too and...well apples to oranges.
I don't suppose I can say it sounded BETTER than a Martin since better is so subjective but I prefer it. I also prefer it to my Stonebridge.
I do however prefer the tone of my AJ over the OOO...but the OOO can be LOUDER than the bonecrusher!!! And the Bonecrushing AJ is a Halcyon too.

I posted clips of my Halcyons against a $3K+ Stonebridge. Everyone I know who's heard them say they prefer one of the Halcyons over the Stonebridge and it isn't because of volume.
The majority of people prefer the OOO. I prefer the AJ. Like I said, subjective ...to a degree.
Sometimes one item just IS better than another and that CAN go for guitars too.

Anyway MBE, take your Halcyon to that store and record the Martins vs your Halcyon. We wont expect high quality (use your phone) but people will be able to hear the difference and which one sounds better than the Martins.

Now go join chooch in the corner ;-)

[mjz]

The guitars played were standard series (and one 15 series) guitars. Not inexpensive, but not high end in the Martin world. The authentic series is probably more comparable to the lightly built hand builts to which the OP refers.

Sounds like you are not a Martin guy. Happens all of the time. Are you a fingerstylist? What is your style?

max

[lt20dbl]

Either you like a guitar or you don't. I really don't get all this comparing your thousand dollar guitar to those $3000 other brand, stuff.
I own a Martin and a Collings and A Tacoma. I like them all for my own reasons.
They are not the same, yet they all have a place in my choir. I see no need to dis any of them or to dis your choice of guitar. The circumstances that led to my purchasing these guitars was partly choice but partly opportunity. I suspect that is the same with most. This sort of comparing is useless. check out the owners guitar reviews on Harmony Central. Just about everybody thinks their guitar is wonderful and that is how it should be. That's why they bought it. If you think your guitars are worlds better than Martins and Taylors that cost three times as much, good for you. You may have a hard time selling it to anyone but folks who bought the same brand.

[SJ VanSandt]

I think the OP's point isn't to dis Martins or crow about his custom guitars, but to encourage people to look beyond the big name brands for the best guitar, and to point out that good custom shop guitars are available in the same price range. His judgement is that you can get more guitar for your money.

My experience, when I've had the opportunity to compare Martins to small shop equivalents like Collings, Froggy Bottom, Bourgeois, Santa Cruz, etc. pretty much bears this out. However, in my case, the less well known brands were more expensive. I'd expect a 5k guitar to sound better than a 3k one, and they did. I've never had an opportunity to play a Webber or a Halcyon.

[ferganzo]

Originally Posted by harmonics101

and I don't live in a high end neighborhood Harmonics

I was not judging the OP, or whether or not those guitars are expensive or inexpensive relative to other guitars.

Rather, I was indicating, among the Martin lineup, that those are not the high-end Martins. High-end Martins would be Custom Shop, Marquis, Authentics, and so on with list prices of $6500 or better.

[MBE]

Originally Posted by SJ VanSandt

I think the OP's point isn't to dis Martins or crow about his custom guitars, but to encourage people to look beyond the big name brands for the best guitar, and to point out that good custom shop guitars are available in the same price range. His judgement is that you can get more guitar for your money.

My experience, when I've had the opportunity to compare Martins to small shop equivalents like Collings, Froggy Bottom, Bourgeois, Santa Cruz, etc. pretty much bears this out. However, in my case, the less well known brands were more expensive. I'd expect a 5k guitar to sound better than a 3k one, and they did. I've never had an opportunity to play a Webber or a Halcyon.

Thank you, SJ! You interpreted my intentions very accurately.

I mentioned the Taylors at the end to try to show that it wasn't intended as Martin-bashing (I also pointed out the quality construction and feel of the guitars). I just wanted to encourage people to try out a handbuilt guitar in their specified budget range the next time they're shopping for a new instrument.

It was this forum that encouraged me to take the leap into Webbers, and likewise, blaren's posts convinced me to give Halcyon a shot. I just wanted to pay it forward, and hope that this thread gets someone's gears turning. No other ulterior motive.

[HHP]

I suppose it's not too shocking that people find their previous choices confirmed. Familiarity breeds content. My own experience is that when I try things different from my norm, and don't immediately like them, I just assume it's me and not the guitar or whatever. Like everybody, I've made judgements on guitars based on limited time to try before making a buy or no buy decision even though my experience tells me it will take weeks or months before I am really familiar enough with it to know what it can do.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by SJ VanSandt

I think the OP's point isn't to dis Martins or crow about his custom guitars, but to encourage people to look beyond the big name brands for the best guitar, and to point out that good custom shop guitars are available in the same price range. His judgement is that you can get more guitar for your money.

My experience, when I've had the opportunity to compare Martins to small shop equivalents like Collings, Froggy Bottom, Bourgeois, Santa Cruz, etc. pretty much bears this out. However, in my case, the less well known brands were more expensive. I'd expect a 5k guitar to sound better than a 3k one, and they did. I've never had an opportunity to play a Webber or a Halcyon.

Agreed.

A lot of newer players only know the factory brands their local shops carry. The first time you play the boutique brands (particularly in A/B comparisons), you see there's a considerable tone difference and not that much of a dollar difference.

I think "previous choices confirmed" is a balanced view as well as the limitations of self and try outs...(HHP).

There are any number of players who would also not "get" what a Bourgeois OM delivers.

There is a also the simple reality of not being "a Martin guy." (GibbyPrague). There is such a thing.

[rmyAddison]

18s and 28s are standard Martins, not high end, you can step up to Vintage/Marquis/GE variants, then Authentics, 40 series and custom shops. Just clarification from a Martin product line perspective.

Folks can prefer whatever they will, at whatever price point, there is no right or wrong. If you love Halcyon fine, or any brand for that matter. It's not a contest, people would be stupid not to buy what makes them smile, just don't preach (aimed at nobody in particular) that the next guy must like what you do, and a lot of folks seem to go down that road.

I'm a high end guy and I'm a Martin guy, that's what works for me, what works for somebody else is their business. I would never tell somebody you need to like Martins because I do, why should I even care, it's their guitar.

I have a decent number of players over my house, I don't care what they play, I care how they play..............

[llew]

No one guitar builder can be "everything to everybody" IMHO? Just gotta find what's right for you...not what's right for everyone else?

[Rosewood99]

I recently got the chance to play a Halcyon OM and wasn't impressed. I guess the lesson is maybe there is no general consensus---get what sounds good to you. For me, I wouldn't trade what I have.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by MBE

This was very much in line with my observation. "Resonance" would be a nice way to describe what I felt was lacking. That extra facet of the tone that adds depth and a sort of 3-dimensional effect, the way a good tube amp does on an electric.

I would never say that these guitars were bad, bad-sounding, or bad value for the money. I just think that, since they're what you'll find hanging on the rack at most stores, that it can be easy to miss out on the handbuilt guitars in this same price range.

yes, i agree with you.

[usb_chord]

The VS is a pretty serious guitar in the Martin world. Maybe they arent the highest trim-level (adi top, abalone, forward shifted, ect) but I dont really feel any martin model (of comparable style) is head and shoulders above it.